Perception vs Reality

ukcarper

I'd like to see a breakdown of the skills of EU immigrants.

Bantex_2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Well first of all it's extremely doubtful that the majority of immigrants are unskilled. Low skilled, or vocationally skilled, perhaps, but not unskilled.

And second, we do need unskilled/low skilled migrants in the UK.

Our shortage is of people, and we need to import migrants in broadly the same percentages of skill levels as the current population. That means we need some skilled labour, some professionals, some specialists, and some unskilled or low skilled.

Now you could make an argument that the million or so low/unskilled and long-term unemployed people currently here should be forced to move to where the work is and take on the jobs instead.

But the problem with that is we have shown no desire as a country to force them to move to where the work is. Whereas immigrants happily do so.

In my neck of the woods there are 3 jobs for every jobseeker currently, but I hardly ever see anyone bothering to get off their backside and come here from the North of England looking for work.

I do see people willing to leave everything behind and come from Poland, or Ireland, or Spain however....

Until you force the existing people in unemployment hotspots to move around the country and fill vacant jobs elsewhere, you can't rationally choke off the much-needed supply of labour that migrants provide.

Should these workers be banned from bringing their non productive parents and grandparents once settled?

If not the demographic argument sort of falls over.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Bantex wrote: »

Should these workers be banned from bringing their non productive parents and grandparents once settled?

From what I can see in the data, the overwhelming majority of EU migrants do not.

But on that note, should the millions of Brits who retire overseas be forced to return?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

ukcarper wrote: »

I'd like to see a breakdown of the skills of EU immigrants.

There you go, some good data in the below....

http://www.cer.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/pb_imm_uk_27sept13.pdf

European migrants to the UK are on average better educated than the average UK worker.

It's an interesting read.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

And an interesting excerpt from a blog comment in another thread....

It doesn't matter that the threat to Germany in the 1920s/30s from World Jewry was as imagined as the threat to England in 2014 is from Islam, "Labour fascists", gays or immigrants.

As much as I hate this government, I really don't think the country is on the precipice of economic collapse and disaster caused by immigrants, the EU, Islam or anything else. It's rather a nice place to be in general, actually.

It could be far better still, and I hope it will become so: that won't be achieved by shutting out outsiders and becoming a nation of xenophobes. What UKIP has done is in some ways not identified a fear, so much as to create one.

There was no "Jewish problem" in Germany in 1933. There is no "immigration crisis" in the UK in 2014.

http://pme2013.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/ukip-our-last-hope.html?m=1

The entire comment is worth reading also...

Bantex_2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

From what I can see in the data, the overwhelming majority of EU migrants do not.

But on that note, should the millions of Brits who retire overseas be forced to return?

Many are forced to return from countries like Spain when their cash runs out.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Bantex wrote: »

Many are forced to return from countries like Spain when their cash runs out.

Indeed, although I'm not sure how that's relevant to the discussion, or to the fact that most EU migrants don't bring their aged relatives with them.

But back to that point anyway, many millions of Brits remain overseas, in fact, there are roughly as many Brits overseas as there are immigrants here, despite the fact some return eventually, more go in their place.

Do you suggest we should lock down the borders (prompting retaliation from elsewhere) and just swap those few million people back?

Or were you thinking more a one in one out policy...:rotfl:

Bantex_2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Indeed, although I'm not sure how that's relevant to the discussion, or to the fact that most EU migrants don't bring their aged relatives with them.

But back to that point anyway, many millions of Brits remain overseas, in fact, there are roughly as many Brits overseas as there are immigrants here, despite the fact some return eventually, more go in their place.

Do you suggest we should lock down the borders (prompting retaliation from elsewhere) and just swap those few million people back?

Or were you thinking more a one in one out policy...:rotfl:

personally I think all countries should have control over their own borders and be free to admit or not as suits at any particular time.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Bantex wrote: »

personally I think all countries should have control over their own borders and be free to admit or not as suits at any particular time.

Whereas I think Britain is better off as part of a larger union, providing advantages of scale and free and open markets in labour, goods and services.

The evidence supports my viewpoint.

Not sure much more than nostalgia supports yours....

TickersPlaysPop

If UKIP win a third or even over 50% of the UK seats will it really make much difference?

The laws that the UK adopts due to the EU deciding won't be stopped by or MEP's? Legislation is the MEP's but what power does our own parliament have?

I think the EU has a serious PR issue, it needs a dept that is responsible for advertising and spreading the good word. As it's left to the press we all get a very distorted view. But I guess we wouldn't believe EU disciples, esp when the EU's financial books have never been audited.... I seem to remember one accountancy firm refused to audit!

To me, if UKIP do well, it will serve only to send a message to the EU who will then sit up and take actions to prevent it happening again in 4yrs. What that action is will hopefully be in line with the concerns of UKIP supporters. It might also give UKIP enough money to send the same message to our political system at the general election in 2015.