Woodworm - Been told need complete new floor and joists

Lady_K

A woodworm company came to check my ground floor suspended softwood floor (21' drop below) He has advised me to have it all out and new pre-treated put in. He said they dont guarantee patching up jobs.
He looked beneath 2 corners of the room through a 12' square of lifted boards, the rest of the floor has a lot of stuff on so he couldn't check it all, I showed him one bit in the middle which crunches when you stand right on it. The floor is a bit bouncy in places too.

I was hoping to just be able to get a few beams replaced which have bowed due to a very heavy piano on there for 20yrs and replace any weak boards.
A carpenter also had a look and said that if money is an issue he can do this as a temporary measure as it takes years to eat through and just cover it up and forget it. Now I'm confused what to do.

The top of the boards are covered in dark hardwax stain and hardwax oil and there is no sign of holes emerging through the top in the 7 years that its been waxed but when the boards are lifted there are holes on the underside and beams. Could this mean the woodworm is now inactive? I did ask the man but he said that he could tell it was active but didn't say how or what type of woodworm.

On top of this, the room next door is also a suspended wood floor and for some reason at some time someone has created a hole in the foundation wall between them so its a good chance the woodworm could have travelled to that room too, although that floor feels very sound and doesnt bounce.

Plus, the adjoining hall floor, an exposed oak floor, also hardwaxed put in when built in 1930's he said is highly likely to have woodworm but no signs of it from the top, he didn't take it up as I didn't want it damaged. The floor does move a bit, he said it could need supporting or woodworm could have got to the joists there too.

He looked under the stairs and found the electric meter and circuit boards panel was totally eaten away and half the floorboards were newer than the others so possibly the previous owners tried to tackle woodworm before but I've been here 25yrs and it wasn't me. That's next to the oak hall floor too but still they don't seem to have been affected from the top.

His advice was to rip up the back room floor, replace that and while that's up try to get a better view of the hall before ripping it up. Hes quoting me for both the room and hallway.

I asked if I just had the floor replaced and find the hallway beams are effected but left it could they re-infest the new floor and he said no as the new would be treated.
So am I safe leaving the hall floor and just getting the bouncy bit supported and leaving the next door room until it gets more of a problem too?

I asked for an approximate cost of the one room replacement and he said around £1500 but I may want it stronger as I have to have a hospital bed in there which I am told is going to be very heavy so he said he could double beam it so it would be more. I'm waiting for the quote.

What is double beam? is it 2together or double beams spread out?

The carpenter also told me I had a something beam meaning it was stronger I'm guessing he meant an extra thick beam through the middle of the floor would the new floor be laid the same?

Mojisola

I would get a second opinion before deciding anything.

Have you really got a 21 foot drop below the floor or is it 21 inches?

When our floor needed replacing, for almost the same price as new woodwork, we were able to have insulated concrete floors put in. It's made a big difference to the temperature in the house and there's no worries about future woodworm infestations or heavy furniture, etc.

Lady_K

Sorry I meant 21 inch drop

Yes I am going to get a second opinion.

I am already contemplating a concrete floor but I know it can cause issues with the other floors still remaining suspended floors due to less ventilation. It is a temptation as it would remove any future woodworm problems in that room at least but at the same time it feels as though its going against the tradition of the house. I have loved having the dark wood floors and they are practical.

The woodworm man told me if I had that floor concreted I would have to have the others concreted too because of the ventilation issues

I also read about damp problems to foundation walls when wood floors are changed to concrete due to moisture not being able to escape even with a damp proof membrain. How did you go about yours?

I'm going to get a quote for concrete too though

Lady_K

The quote came through today at £1821, for the dining room floor.


It says something about being capped and laid on pvc dpc membrane, I didn't know they used dpc membranes for wooden floors I thought that was just concrete

Mojisola

Lady_K wrote: »

I am already contemplating a concrete floor but I know it can cause issues with the other floors still remaining suspended floors due to less ventilation.

The woodworm man told me if I had that floor concreted I would have to have the others concreted too because of the ventilation issues

I also read about damp problems to foundation walls when wood floors are changed to concrete due to moisture not being able to escape even with a damp proof membrain. How did you go about yours?

We did go for total replacement - our floors weren't anything special, one room had already had the floor boards replaced with sheets so we weren't losing anything of architectural value.

Don't know about the foundation wall issues - our floors have been done for some time now and we haven't had any problems.

Paula_Smith

I believe you can tell old worm holes from new ones - new ones are sharply defined, older ones are softer (this makes more sense when you are looking at them.)

paddyrg

Don't get a second opinion from another company with a product to sell though! If the floor is 20+ years old, it's very unlikely the wood is green enough to support a woodworm population (the beetles mature and fly away) - they can't live in seasoned, dry timber.

The bloke who quoted you £1800 is hoping to sell you £1800 worth of services - you may find his opinion isn't entirely neutral.

http://www.askjeff.co.uk/woodworm-the-hole-in-the-argument/ this guy writes the DIY column for The Telegraph.

Lady_K

paddyrg wrote: »

Don't get a second opinion from another company with a product to sell though! If the floor is 20+ years old, it's very unlikely the wood is green enough to support a woodworm population (the beetles mature and fly away) - they can't live in seasoned, dry timber.

The bloke who quoted you £1800 is hoping to sell you £1800 worth of services - you may find his opinion isn't entirely neutral.

http://www.askjeff.co.uk/woodworm-the-hole-in-the-argument/ this guy writes the DIY column for The Telegraph.

I don't really know who to ask apart from woodworm treatment companies. I would really like to ask someone but its who.

I know they fly away but that could be to the next joist or floorboard couldn't it?
I don't know how dry or wet it is under there but the wooden floors are throughout the ground floor, 2 rooms, hallway and under the stairs, the kitchen is concrete.

That room is one I dont use often and its been shut off with the radiator on 0 for most of the winter and for 8 or 9 months 7 yrs ago I had no central heating at all in the house as the boiler broke so that probably hasn't helped things. I know it affected the walls as there was mould growing everywhere but I never thought about any problems it might cause below the floors if it has.

I will check the holes to see if they are sharp or smooth, I really want it to be inactive because then I would just have the saggy joists replaced and replace only the floor boards that are needed. I'm really tempted just to get that done.

Don't know if this means anything but for years I've been finding what looked like dead woodlice on my fireplace hearth, its an open fire that's been sealed off and a gas fire put in. I never knew why I kept finding them but for the last year I haven't found any, could I have been mistaken and they might have been dead woodworm?

The report says the woodworm is common furniture beetle.

SG27

Here is what I would do.

Firstly, get some masking tape and put it tightly over the affected areas. If the woodworm is active there will be holes in the tape.

Secondly forget all that the woodworm specialist told you and never speak to him again. Your carpenter seems better informed.

If it's active you need to find out what is making the wood damp enough for them to live and breed. Could be condensation, leaking pipes ingress from outside, lack of ventilation to sub floor area etc. fix this and the colony will eventually die out.

Lady_K

SG27 wrote: »

Here is what I would do.

Firstly, get some masking tape and put it tightly over the affected areas. If the woodworm is active there will be holes in the tape.

Secondly forget all that the woodworm specialist told you and never speak to him again. Your carpenter seems better informed.

If it's active you need to find out what is making the wood damp enough for them to live and breed. Could be condensation, leaking pipes ingress from outside, lack of ventilation to sub floor area etc. fix this and the colony will eventually die out.

I already had an appointment booked for today for another specialist. He didn't really look around much just lifted 2 small floorboards about 12 inches each and pointed out the one gone in the middle of the room. He said it wasn't that bad and he would quote me for spraying the room and allow for a certain percentage of new boards and 2 new joists where the piano has been but more may be needed.
He said I didn't need a new floor but I don't know if that might be because they dont actually do whole new floors.
He looked under the stairs but didn't seem interested in that he just said how bad the circuit board was but concentrated on the dining room and said just because it is next to the hallway it doesn't mean its in there.

I do think the boards in the elec cupboard under the stairs could be old and inactive because there is no new woodworm on the newer boards in there put down by previous owners over 25yrs ago and there is a wooden wall in there protecting a tumble dryer hose that I had put in 23yrs ago that is untouched by woodworm so it cant be active. The only thing is the wooden back of the circuit board which is total crumble but I think the worms are long gone from there.

I will get someone to do the masking tape thing but how long do you have to wait to see if that shows anything?

I don't have too much time because I have to have the hospital bed in there asap and so floor has to be sorted, room decorated, carpet in etc.
I also am not very comfortable with sleeping in a room that has has chemicals sprayed all over it, it cant be good. The man today said it is harmless to humans made from crocuses

SG27

Lady_K wrote: »

I already had an appointment booked for today for another specialist. He didn't really look around much just lifted 2 small floorboards about 12 inches each and pointed out the one gone in the middle of the room. He said it wasn't that bad and he would quote me for spraying the room and allow for a certain percentage of new boards and 2 new joists where the piano has been but more may be needed.
He said I didn't need a new floor but I don't know if that might be because they dont actually do whole new floors.
He looked under the stairs but didn't seem interested in that he just said how bad the circuit board was but concentrated on the dining room and said just because it is next to the hallway it doesn't mean its in there.

I do think the boards in the elec cupboard under the stairs could be old and inactive because there is no new woodworm on the newer boards in there put down by previous owners over 25yrs ago and there is a wooden wall in there protecting a tumble dryer hose that I had put in 23yrs ago that is untouched by woodworm so it cant be active. The only thing is the wooden back of the circuit board which is total crumble but I think the worms are long gone from there.

I will get someone to do the masking tape thing but how long do you have to wait to see if that shows anything?

I don't have too much time because I have to have the hospital bed in there asap and so floor has to be sorted, room decorated, carpet in etc.
I also am not very comfortable with sleeping in a room that has has chemicals sprayed all over it, it cant be good. The man today said it is harmless to humans made from crocuses

For the masking tape test you really need to leave it in place for a full flight season, ie April to June. Ideally next year. Woodworm damage occurs at a very gradual rate and another couple of years won't make a lot of difference unless your house is excessively damp.

However like you say you need to get a heavy bed in there fairly soon. Personally I would get the damaged boards repaired/strengthened and check for high humidity/damp below the floorboards. I would only resort to chemicals as a last resort.