Buying - Seller not give tenant notice

firebird082

Hi all,

You were all incredibly helpful last time, so I'm back again for more advice!

We currently have an offer in on a house that we really like - it had 6 asking price offers, so went to best and final offers at 12pm on Friday. I have been chasing the estate agent since then, and have been told that ours was the highest offer and best position as buyers, and that he has recommended that they accept our offer.

The sellers are the children of the lady who owns the house, currently in a care home. When I phoned on Saturday, the estate agent said that the seller "had to consult with her sister" (he sounded pretty fed up with them too!).

This is all taking ages (we originally put in the offer on 17th April). The thing that makes me most nervous though is that the estate agent has told us that the tenants haven't yet been given notice to move out, and that the sellers aren't intending to do so until contracts have been exchanged. Am I missing something here? I know perfectly well that it can be impossible to get rid of tenants, and I'm not intending to buy the house as anything except a vacant possession. Is it reasonable for us to insist that we won't proceed with all the pre-exchange stuff until the tenants have at least been given notice? What would you do? My suspicion is that they are not really intending to sell the house, and that there's a real danger that they will pull out of the sale having lost nothing, and meanwhile we've lost hundreds (possibly more) on the place.

Pixie5740

The vendors are eejits. I think it's perfectly reasonable to insist that the tenants are served with a section 21 notice before you go any further with this purchase. Even then it could take months as you don't even know if the tenants are in a fixed tenancy or if their deposit was protected...so many factors which could cause this to drag on.

The vendors are dreaming if they think your solicitor (and lender) will allow you to exchange without vacant possession.

RAS

Do you need a mortgage?

The mortgage providers will not release the capital until the property is vacant.

And a solicitor will not probably advise you not to exchange unless it is vacant.

I suggest you write to the EA them the name of your solicitor and that until notice is given, you will however not be spending any money on survey etc until your solicitor has received a copy of the notice and confirmation that the deposit is secured properly. At that point ask the solicitor to confirm that the S21 is valid?

firebird082

Yes, we do need a mortgage - we've got a meeting arranged to set one up on Wednesday (even though we've not actually been offered the house yet!). That's useful to know about the release of capital. So basically they are shooting themselves in the foot for a sale by not getting rid of the tenants? Presumably any other buyer will be having the same issues.

jjlandlord

You tell them that you will not incur any cost (survey, etc) before they serve notice, and that you will not exchange until tenant has left (solicitor won't let you).

As such you conclude by telling then that if notice is not served within a week you walk.

ilikewatch

firebird082 wrote: »

Presumably any other buyer will be having the same issues.

Probably not if they're paying cash or are planning on letting the property?

BitterAndTwisted

The people acting on behalf of the vendor are numpties. They may not realise that you can't progress to exchange without the property being vacant first. This is the time when you should tell them, and that you need to accept that you won't be in a position to exchange for months.

The tenants could be on a statutory periodic tenancy, the vendor could issue them with a Section 21 Notice giving two complete rental-period's notice. The tenant could decide not to vacate upon expiry and the vendor then would need to apply to court for possession. If the local court is very busy it could take several months to get a court date. Once possession has been granted the vendor would then need to appoint bailiffs to remove them. And that's IF the proper documentation has been issued in the first place.

My guess is that you could still be waiting to exchange by August, maybe later.

RAS

firebird082 wrote: »

Yes, we do need a mortgage - we've got a meeting arranged to set one up on Wednesday (even though we've not actually been offered the house yet!). That's useful to know about the release of capital. So basically they are shooting themselves in the foot for a sale by not getting rid of the tenants? Presumably any other buyer will be having the same issues.

Any buyer needing a mortgage will have the same problems. Anyone paying cash will find it very hard to get their lawyer to agree to exchange without vacant possession.

What you need to understand is (assuming England or Wales):

1. Fixed term or periodic tenancy? If fixed, end date.
2. Has the deposit been secured properly and the prescribed information sent within the time limt? If not, any S21 will fail if the tenant takes advise.
3. When was the notice issued and what is the end date on the notice.

Even so it could take 3-6 months after the notice ends to remove a persistant tenant.

firebird082

Yes, that's my worry - it's all well and good if the tenants move out at the end of their 2 months. The nuisance factor is that we are having to move out of our rented accommodation at the end of this week, so our furniture will be in storage, and we'll be staying with my folks in the interim. Obviously we don't want that to drag out for months and months on end, as our preference is to get everything sorted ASAP. Equally, the house is perfect for us, and it's the best we've seen in 2 months of concentrated searching, and for a reasonable price, so probably worth waiting for.

Edit: Thanks for all the things to check with the agent - I guess it's just wait to hear and then start asking all the awkward questions *sigh*. Now I understand why everyone says buying a house is a nightmare!

firebird082

ilikewatch wrote: »

Probably not if they're paying cash or are planning on letting the property?

I suppose, but equally then, if there was a cash buy-to let buyer in the list of options, wouldn't that have been their first choice? (it would have been mine if I was in their position).

BitterAndTwisted

I'd pop round to the property and have a chat with the tenant and try to discover whether they've been given formal notice, and what their intentions are. With viewers tramping through their home for the last x months they can't be unaware that their tenancy is due to end sooner rather than later.