Advice please - employer references when 'let go'

me98sjc

Hi everyone,
I hope you can help or offer some advice.
Yesterday I was dismissed from work having been there for 6 months. The UK company is large (some 33,000 employees) and has had an improving reputation over the last few years, but may be viewed by some as a bit old fashioned and full of dinosaurs.

At the meeting yesterday with an HR rep, my line manager stated that I did not conform to the company's values and behaviours and made the difficult decsion to terminate my contract.

If I can backpeddle a bit - she arranged a meeting with me on the 8th June with no warning or information about the meeting, I just had to turn up. She had a bit of a go at me behind those closed doors for speaking to other people about her (I find her very unapproachable and was constantly worried about whether I was annoying her or bothering her when asking for advice about work). She also told me off for being negative and overly critical (which I felt was very unfair and told her so - the director of the function, her boss, has told everyone repeatedly to offer feedback as it's welcomed); she brought this up because she had 'heard things from other people'. Her approach has always been 'you must tell me if there is a problem'; she never asks after you in a genuine manner and will only greet you if you acknowledge her first.

At yesterday's meeting she referenced this meeting from 8th June and told me that because I had 'done it again' (gone to someone I had hoped I could trust for advice about what to do) it was curtains for me. She repeated a number of other things from the previous meeting along the same lines (nothing to do with my work though, I don't think I have ever given her a reason to criticise me on that), and told me that she had given me ample opportunities to come to her if there was an issue, so effectively I have been lying by saying one thing to her and another to other people.

The only positive news is that I have been given 4 months' gardening leave as per the contract, so I haven't been sacked, more that I have been made redundant of sorts. I am also free to be employed elsewhere as long as it's not the same company or a third party, which should be fine.

The HR rep asked if I had any questions; I said no, it's not as if they would have took my word over the line manager's. Plus I was so shocked I couldn't think of anything to say.

I wasn't really enjoying the job for a while, I didn't feel challenged and what I was doing certainly didn't match the job description I applied for. But I applied myself, improved a number of existing things, delivered new ones, and helped anyone who asked for my advice. I seemed to get on with everyone but the line manager.

While I am upset and there may be grounds for unfair dismissal, I am trying to think positively and am actively searching for jobs. What concerns me most is the situation re: references from this employer and what I can do to minimise the damage to my reputation what they say may cause. I worked for my previous company for 6.5 years, so I can't have been that bad, really loved it for the most part but thought the grass might be greener. It wasn't!

I would really appreciate any advice you may have, I hate that I have done this to my husband and may have severely messed our finances up if I can't find a new job.

Thanks so much,
Sarah

nearlyrich

First of all don't panic you have 4 months breathing space to find a suitable position.

Investigate the unfair dismissal situation but I thought you had to work somewhere for a year before that applied ( Don't take my word it's a long time since I was involved in this kind of thing and lot's will have changed)

You need to be creative in your wording of why you left the job, 6 months is long enough to have given it a good try if your role didn't match the one they employed you to do, I have been in this position and it's hard.

Why not sign up with a temp agency for the immediate future, once you have a job even a temp job it seems easier to get another.

Most of all don't beat yourself up about this, some people get management positions with zero people skills.

me98sjc

Thanks nearlyrich, I appreciate your kind words. I'm not sure the 4-month period has sunk in yet, I'm still on a knife-edge of emotions.

I looked on https://www.direct.gov.uk and their advice about unfair dismissal stated that you needed to be employed for a year, as you said above. Whether that is the case for a company that has no probationary period and I was a permenant member of staff, I don't know.

I am currently telling recruitment agents that there was a recent reorg in the function (which is true) and that I found myself underutilised and was offered redundancy. Some little white lies in there but it seems a little unfair to have to be judged because my boss had a negative opinion of me; as she kept telling me, everyone is different and you can't expect people to behave in the same way.

More than anything, it's the reference situation that bothers me at the moment.

Your last comment made me smile - I thought it was just me that thought like that...

Thanks again,
Sarah

me98sjc

Hi Toots,

Thanks so much for your reply. I feel so silly when seeing what you have gone through. I pretty much decided yesterday after the meeting I wasn't going to take it any further, I have so much to loose. Hubby tells me to turn my energy into something positive and look for a new (and in theory, better) job than wasting it fighting the massive corporate beast. I admit to wishing a little bit of harm to my line manager (I think it's only natural!) but I have a couple of months to sort myself out. You're absolutely spot on about considering what those people said to you about your conduct - I too attempted to change my behaviours, line manager didn't and I am the one whose contract is terminated.

I feel very ashamed of myself and disgusted that I thought I was so invincible - I have a good degree and am a chartered engineer and thought I had (pretty much) everything. But then what have I lost? A job I haven't enjoyed. I still have my home (well, for the next 4 months!!!!!!!) and my fabulous hubby. That's a lot more than some people have.

Thank you again Toots - I'll direct a little more of my energy to that evil nasty man on your behalf.

Sarah

Savvy_Sue

Of course, if you start doing some temping, you could even stop using this last job as a referee! The agency would probably confirm dates you've worked and that clients have been happy with your work.

Luvly.cuppa.T

Hello, I would certainly agree with you not to take it any further as it will be more hassle than it is worth. Believe me, I am still going through 'stuff' now from January.
If you didn't like the job, and chances are the line manager will be there for a while yet, then you should have more fun looking for another job!

What is 'gardening leave'?

I too am wondering what to say in a couple of interviews that I have next week about why my job was terminated. I was dismissed, then through an appeal they overturned it. I haven't been reinstated, so how do I explain leaving a job I loved and was extremely fitting in my life? (my record should be clean now)
[Thankfully this is part time in the catering industry so they don't ask for CVs]

CFC

You have no grounds for unfair dismissal. You have been terminated on the general grounds of 'unsuitability' in all probability. That is the purpose of the probationary period, to ensure that it is all working out in the way that it is hoped the employment will go, and to retain the right to release anyone when it isn't going the right way.

It's easy to demonise a manager who doesn't speak to you, but seeking advice from 'someone you thought you could trust' rather than speaking to your manager is not generally a good idea, especially when you are in your probationary period, and especially when you have been specifically told to approach your manager with your concerns.

You have had time invested in you by the firm, they didn't do this lightly, you need to perhaps reassess the way it went during your brief period there and work out how it could go better next time. It may be that you need to give a lot of consideration to the company culture - small places are more forgiving in terms of hierarchy generally than large employers. It may be that not enjoying the job was actually having a lot more effect on your behaviour than you recognise right now. The important thing is that you learn from the experience.

I think that advice to get a temping job is a wise possibilty. When you get a new job, if they apply to your ex employer for references, the reference is likely to state that you were terminated and also whether they would re-employ you. If that doesnt' match up with what you are saying (ie you are saying you were made redundant) you may find you lose the new job, as most employers will not accept a disparity betwen reason the employee gives for leaving and the reason on the reference. You're taking a big risk by being deceptive about it.

If you don't get a temp job, then either drop the employment completely from your reference or say that it simply didn't work out as both you and the employer hoped it would. Most employers would take that as a reasonable thing to happen once to a person, especially as you were employed for a long while with your previous company.

LittleVoice

Luvly.cuppa.T wrote: »

. . . What is 'gardening leave'? . . .

When an employee continues to receive their regular salary/benefits but is not required to do any work, in fact is prevented from doing so, generally pending the ending of the employment relationship. Often this is because of concerns about your ability to damage the business during the period of your notice.

cannycat

Just to say something similar happened to me back in 2001 (working for the world's vilest little company run by the world's vilest little man and his nasty little sidekicks. I obviously won't name the company but at the time it was in a city up north with a famous black and white football team, a university, a giant red statue with its arms outstretched over the A1, and lots of bridges across the river). They'd sacked lots of other people as well - their turnover was about 20-25% (not normal in the north!!!) and I was actually physically there when they sacked someone with no warning and stood over her while her desk was cleared.

I ended up losing a month's pay in that job as I preferred to jump rather than be pushed. Before I was lucky enough to find a good job with a good employer (civil service) I temped, which helped tremendously as I could then say that my "reason for leaving" last job was "temporary contracts only". Funnily enough a few years later one of the people who had been a staunch supporter of aforesaid vilest little man was also got rid of in a very nasty way...

People often go on about how fantastic the corporate sector is; it's true that they may pay better than the public sector, but in my experience you have absolutely no respect or redress to fairness, let alone job security! I can only hope these nasty little people who do this kind of thing end up on the receiving end of it themselves someday....!

Very best of luck with finding replacement employment - and you may find, as I did, that it works out for the very best in the medium to long-term!

me98sjc

CFC wrote: »

That is the purpose of the probationary period, to ensure that it is all working out in the way that it is hoped the employment will go, and to retain the right to release anyone when it isn't going the right way.

CFC, I have to respond to this part of your post. There is NO probationary period at this particular company; I specifically asked this before I joined and have a letter stating this fact.

I appreciate that 'these things' are done without the unfortunate soon-to-be-ex employee's knowledge; the decision is made well in advance of the meeting and nothing that employee could say or do would change the situation. But how is a person to approach a rather unapproachable manager and tell them they are unapproachable? This ground was covered at the meeting on the 8th June, and I said it would be nice if the line manager would tell us (the team) a bit more about herself, as we work for her and I think these things help to oil the wheels of teams, which she accepted and said she would try. I also said that it's not in my nature to pry and so don't push for information if there is any resistance. In this 'long' list she read out of the reasons for my termination was that I "didn't ask her about her family". I struggled with that one.

It's difficult to accept some of the things you have written, but I shall try. Thanks for the time you have taken to respond.

CFC

me98sjc wrote: »

CFC, I have to respond to this part of your post. There is NO probationary period at this particular company; I specifically asked this before I joined and have a letter stating this fact.

I appreciate that 'these things' are done without the unfortunate soon-to-be-ex employee's knowledge; the decision is made well in advance of the meeting and nothing that employee could say or do would change the situation. But how is a person to approach a rather unapproachable manager and tell them they are unapproachable? This ground was covered at the meeting on the 8th June, and I said it would be nice if the line manager would tell us (the team) a bit more about herself, as we work for her and I think these things help to oil the wheels of teams, which she accepted and said she would try. I also said that it's not in my nature to pry and so don't push for information if there is any resistance. In this 'long' list she read out of the reasons for my termination was that I "didn't ask her about her family". I struggled with that one.

It's difficult to accept some of the things you have written, but I shall try. Thanks for the time you have taken to respond.

I find it surprising that there is no probationary period - however in that case it must have been an even more difficult decision to terminate your employment. The way to tell a manager that you find her unapproachable is to come out and say it and ask to find a better way to manage communication between you. Preferably get it documented, if the manager does not, you drop them an email confirming the results of the conversation that you had. If you'd taken this tack, the meeting at which you were terminated may well have taken a totally different turn, even if your manager wanted to let you go. Once you've raised a problem and sought to resolve it, it is much easier to start saying, 'hang on, I don't think this is all me, you know.'

Learn from it and move on - there is never a work situation which you can't learn from to be better equipped for the future.