Weird Dealership Situation - Thoughts please!

agrinnall

I doubt whether you'll be able to return a car bought 10 months ago, you'll definitely be deemed to have accepted it long ago, especially if you have made no significant effort to try to return it (one letter that you never followed up probably won't cut the mustard). If you can't afford the repayments you may have to settle what you owe to date then sell the car to pay off the rest of the finance.

Inch_High_2

taxiphil wrote: »

Be careful here because there's a criminal offence of "dishonestly retaining a wrongful credit" (Theft Act 1968). If you know the credit was made to you in error but don't take reasonable steps to pay it back, the law says that you've stolen the money.

The fact that it happened a few months ago and you've not paid it back isn't going to sound very good in a courtroom.

I'd seriously advise you to send them a cheque for £1500 by Recorded Delivery tomorrow morning.

I think it would be difficult to convince anyone the op has acted dishonestly in this case.

arcon5

bclark wrote: »

It potentially is you know.

Get real. There's a massive difference between what the police would deem to be dishonestly retaining wrongful credit and ops situation! For starters it doesn't sound like it was credited incorrectly - the finance company have pulled the plug because of poor paperwork and returned deposit. Now it's for the dealership to sort out!

So let's stop the scare mongering hey

bclark

arcon5 wrote: »

Get real. There's a massive difference between what the police would deem to be dishonestly retaining wrongful credit and ops situation! For starters it doesn't sound like it was credited incorrectly - the finance company have pulled the plug because of poor paperwork and returned deposit. Now it's for the dealership to sort out!

So let's stop the scare mongering hey

I am real, it would be quite feasible to prove the OP has acted incorrectly here. I mean they have already admitted on a public forum that they are in receipt of the money that they suspect they shouldn't rightfully have.

What makes you think that if the finance company pulled the plug they would just return the deposit? If you honestly think that then you should get real. The car is now 10 months old and hasn't been returned yet, they will not just return the deposit.

It's clear that a mistake has been made and the OP needs to take steps to clarify that, not keep quiet and hope that nobody notices.

Inch_High_2

bclark wrote: »

I am real, it would be quite feasible to prove the OP has acted incorrectly here. I mean they have already admitted on a public forum that they are in receipt of the money that they suspect they shouldn't rightfully have.

What makes you think that if the finance company pulled the plug they would just return the deposit? If you honestly think that then you should get real. The car is now 10 months old and hasn't been returned yet, they will not just return the deposit.

It's clear that a mistake has been made and the OP needs to take steps to clarify that, not keep quiet and hope that nobody notices.

Publishing on a public forum isn't exactly keeping quite.

Can you please point out where the op has acted dishonestly?

bclark

Inch_High wrote: »

Publishing on a public forum isn't exactly keeping quite.

Can you please point out where the op has acted dishonestly?

I said potentially.

Let's consider first leaving the dealership without signing the paperwork. Yes a huge amount of responsibility lies with the dealer but the consumer has a responsibility to act honestly, especially when entering into a secured finance agreement here, is it really reasonable that the OP thought that they would be able to just leave with the car without signing anything? Let's not forget that the dealer asked them to go back in and sign in September and the OP hasn't done it!

Anyway let's move on and we have two months gone by before they think that they should probably have some paperwork for this expensive car they just drove away in, that's two months where they still haven't made any payments.

So now it's ten months that they have had the car, where they still haven't been making payments, and they have also received their deposit back and not made the dealer aware of the mistake a couple of months after the money hit their account.

So how honest are they really being? Driving around in a car that they have made no payment on, keeping quiet about receiving their deposit back out of the blue and now openly discussing whether of not they can get out of paying the finance company a penny!

The OP can not claim ignorance as they have been aware of the issue for almost a year and yet carried on using the car.

matttye

taxiphil wrote: »

Be careful here because there's a criminal offence of "dishonestly retaining a wrongful credit" (Theft Act 1968). If you know the credit was made to you in error but don't take reasonable steps to pay it back, the law says that you've stolen the money.

The fact that it happened a few months ago and you've not paid it back isn't going to sound very good in a courtroom.

I'd seriously advise you to send them a cheque for £1500 by Recorded Delivery tomorrow morning.

'Wrongful' credits are credits that derive from theft, fraud, blackmail or stolen goods. This did not derive from any of those, but presumably from mistake.

This would be straight up theft - if they could prove the OP acted dishonestly.

DUTR

bclark wrote: »

I said potentially.

Let's consider first leaving the dealership without signing the paperwork. Yes a huge amount of responsibility lies with the dealer but the consumer has a responsibility to act honestly, especially when entering into a secured finance agreement here, is it really reasonable that the OP thought that they would be able to just leave with the car without signing anything? Let's not forget that the dealer asked them to go back in and sign in September and the OP hasn't done it!

Anyway let's move on and we have two months gone by before they think that they should probably have some paperwork for this expensive car they just drove away in, that's two months where they still haven't made any payments.

So now it's ten months that they have had the car, where they still haven't been making payments, and they have also received their deposit back and not made the dealer aware of the mistake a couple of months after the money hit their account.

So how honest are they really being? Driving around in a car that they have made no payment on, keeping quiet about receiving their deposit back out of the blue and now openly discussing whether of not they can get out of paying the finance company a penny!

The OP can not claim ignorance as they have been aware of the issue for almost a year and yet carried on using the car.

That's not how I read the original post, I remember when I purchased the car before my current one, as I was driving off the forecourt, the salesrep had come running out to remind me that he/we had forgotten to take the balance .
If the OP had eneded up getting the car for 'free' , it would not be the 1st time I have heard of this occuring (all be it very rare). As long as they are keeping the payments one side to rectify the error when it is noticed then there is nothing lost (as such).

matttye

bclark wrote: »

I said potentially.

Let's consider first leaving the dealership without signing the paperwork. Yes a huge amount of responsibility lies with the dealer but the consumer has a responsibility to act honestly, especially when entering into a secured finance agreement here, is it really reasonable that the OP thought that they would be able to just leave with the car without signing anything? Let's not forget that the dealer asked them to go back in and sign in September and the OP hasn't done it!

Anyway let's move on and we have two months gone by before they think that they should probably have some paperwork for this expensive car they just drove away in, that's two months where they still haven't made any payments.

So now it's ten months that they have had the car, where they still haven't been making payments, and they have also received their deposit back and not made the dealer aware of the mistake a couple of months after the money hit their account.

So how honest are they really being? Driving around in a car that they have made no payment on, keeping quiet about receiving their deposit back out of the blue and now openly discussing whether of not they can get out of paying the finance company a penny!

The OP can not claim ignorance as they have been aware of the issue for almost a year and yet carried on using the car.

Let's get one thing straight: this is not dishonestly retaining a wrongful credit, because, for that, the credit must derive from theft, fraud, blackmail or stolen goods. That charge is made for those situations where, for example, I rob a bank and then pay you using the stolen funds. If you know the funds came from a bank robbery then it is a crime to retain them.

The question is, is what the OP is doing theft or not? Arguably not. Theft is dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving them of it. It's arguable that no appropriation has occurred here because the OP hasn't spent the money. It's just sitting in their account.

Think of another hypothetical situation. If I bring my bike around to your house and leave it in your garden, and it stays there for months, could I really say that you have stolen it? That would only be the case if you appropriated it (assumed the rights of the owner), i.e. by riding it or selling it.

In other words, the finance company sent back the deposit but the OP hasn't done anything with the money - just left it where it is, presumably whilst this whole mess is sorted out. It's hard to suggest that they have stolen the money when they haven't done anything with it, but simply left it where the finance co put it.

mountainofdebt

I would have more sympathy for the OP's wish to return the vehicle if they had, when originally informing the garage of their desire, they had stopped using the vehicle.

So basically now they want to return a vehicle that they have had use of for a nearly a year for free.

Nice