BT Buisiness Infinity 2 packet loss... "it's not a fault we deal with"...

Chaoss

OK so this is going to be a bit of a long post but I could really use some help trying to figure this out as it seems to be a fairly unique issue.

So first off I use my connection for work and my work is game and virtual world environment design and development (I work with 3ds Max, Photoshop, SpeedTree, Mudbox and some proprietary engines that require a constant connection to the internet to work). I also use SVN and github to commit and update changes and this often equates to easily over 1TB of usage (about 50/50 upstream/downstream) per month, Until I moved I had been with BT for 1 year without a single problem or fault and the connection just worked.

I recently moved into a more central location in London and decided to take my service with me since it was such a great service. This is when the problems started, the apartment I moved into had very poor wiring with a phone socket that looked like it was installed sometime in the late 60's. BT said that they'd have to install the phone line first and it would be about a week before they could install Infinity but said that they'd put an ADSL service on the line for me to use in the meantime. This was very unstable dropping connection every 10 - 40 minutes with speeds of around 5 - 8Mbit and a bad case of packet loss. BT wouldn't fix the fault as, I quote "we're still in the 10 day stabilization period.", I had Infinity installed but to my shock they managed to put me on the wrong package and I had a 40/10 service with a usage limit, I still had packet loss but was getting the full 40/10 speeds, again the same excuse of a 10 day stabilization period applied. Anyway they eventually managed to put me on the 80/20 package after many "rejected" attempts , I was not impressed by this stage as I had lost 2 weeks worth of wages when I needed them most!

The packet loss continued on and as before I had to wait out the 10 days, that's almost 4 weeks of lost wages so of course the direct debit from BT bounced (more about this later on). After the 10 days were up I was straight on the phone as the problem of packet loss remained and after many calls and almost 18 hours in total on the phone over the course of the week I got BT to send out 2 Openreach engineers, they turned up and did some line tests and said there was no fault, I had shown them proof and they told me it's an issue I'd have to take up with BT.

After another painstaking 13 hours on the phone over the course of the next 4 days I finally got them to send out a BT engineer who did a line test, and said I quote "your only getting 18Mbit, the cabinet is just outside so that's strange but it's within the acceptable speed for your line so there is nothing I can do", I asked him about the packet loss and he said there was no noise on the line and subsequently left in a hurry and said he was late for his next job, after a few calls I gave up and in frustration broke my house phone (whoops!). I have since gathered my head and decided to take out the Virgin Media 150 service as I really had no other choice if I wanted to keep my job.

I tried to cancel the contract for the internet only (I also have a mobile phone and landline service which I wish to keep) but was told I'd have to pay the remainder of the contract off. My question is where do I stand legally. I have collected evidence (using a brand new laptop with nothing installed, wired into BT's own router and modem, all new DSL and Ethernet cables) and contacted a solicitor who says I have a really strong case against BT.

Where I stand right now is that I have the BT Infinity 2 connection and the Virgin connection which is being installed on the 30th, I have NOT cancelled the contract yet just in case any problems arise with the Virgin Media installation. To add insult to injury I called the BT Onebill department and explained the situation, they seemed very forgiving and said that I would experience no problems paying both bills on the 6th as normal. A few days ago I get a call from a woman from the BT "collections" department demanding I pay my overdue bill or face instant disconnection, I promptly said if she did that they would never see another penny from me again and I'd cancel ALL of my services immediately, she was very pushy and rude but the conclusion of the call was that I pay a part payment which is now paid.

I have recorded all the calls to and from BT including the call I received from the billing department, I have been running some monitoring on the line to measure packet loss, and had the laptops hardware and software inspected by a professional technition both before and after the line check and have certificates for both occasions. A custom router which I use on the line when 'not' testing which I know has not and does not have any issues reports over 17000 CRC errors after being on for about 12 hours

Where do I stand on this? can I sue BT, can I nullify the contract since BT failed to comply with the contract (the business contract is different from the residential service), I understand that they'd have very good lawyers but I have such a strong case. In an ideal world they'd come out and fix the problems (faulty internal wiring, wiring between our building and the cabinet and any other faults as stated in the contract) and I could cancel the services from Virgin Media and everyone would be happy), but they seem unwilling to cooperate and do not seem interested in keeping me or my business as a customer.

kwikbreaks

As your internet requirement is so important and the BT connection is clearly failing why not go to a more business oriented provider? Do you even have a service level agreement?

It's out of my area of expertise but I have seen good things said about A&A. Maybe something like http://www.aa.net.uk/ethernet.html I don't doubt this will be more expensive and you'll have to fight cancellation fees from BT but from your post which I didn't read in it's entirety it seems you want the best.

Chaoss

kwikbreaks wrote: »

As your internet requirement is so important and the BT connection is clearly failing why not go to a more business oriented provider? Do you even have a service level agreement?

It's out of my area of expertise but I have seen good things said about A&A. Maybe something like ... I don't doubt this will be more expensive and you'll have to fight cancellation fees from BT but from your post which I didn't read in it's entirety it seems you want the best.

I have looked at these ISP's but unfortunately no matter how good or bad they are they all use BT's infrastructure and thus would send out Openreach engineers to repair the line which would bring me right back to where I started unfortunately. BT are supposed to have an SLA but they are not sticking by it or backing it up. Virgin Media does do business internet but it only has a 5Mbit upload speed which is insufficient for my needs and only have 1 buisiness internet package so I have taken out a residential service, however they have said that if this changes in the future I can 'switch' to the business side without any termination charges.

kwikbreaks

It's a mistake to consider (virtually) all ISPs the same because they all use the same Openreach/BT Wholesale infrastructure). A good ISP will recognise that a high level of CRC errors leading to a lot of packet loss is unaccepatable and ensure that the fault causing them gets fixed. The product I linked to is FTTP and not FTTC. As it is virtually certain the the errors are occurring in the copper link then that would bypass the problem section.

As you want fast upstream them it's probably best to avoid cable as the technology used has poor upstream characteristics - typically lower bandwidth than VDSL and possible high jitter depending on load. SFAIK the business service uses exactly the same infrastructure as domestic so somebody nearby making heavy use of torrents will screw you up just as much as somebody paying £20 for their connection.

IMO if your income depends on your internet connection you need to be prepared to pay for a proper service.

ChumpusRex

Chaoss wrote: »

I have looked at these ISP's but unfortunately no matter how good or bad they are they all use BT's infrastructure and thus would send out Openreach engineers to repair the line which would bring me right back to where I started unfortunately.

It's not quite that simple. A lot depends upon openreach getting the correct information, and that the ISP can identify whether an openreach engineer could fix the problem, or whether it is an internal network fault.

For example, I had a problem with BT broadband where my ADSL service had a "stuck" line profile, and would only give 0.5 M instead of the 8 M that I had been predicted to get.

There was nothing that BT broadband could do to fix this. I raised 27 support tickets for this stuck profile, had 3 (chargeable) openreach visits where no fault was found, made 3 complaints, which were escalated to the "executive complaints" department. I had my solicitor write them a letter warning them of breach of contract and that if they weren't going to provide the contracted service, they should terminate the contract with no penalty. They still couldn't fix it.

As it happens, by chance I met someone who worked in tech support for another ISP that resold BT openreach ADSL. He couldn't believe the story. The "stuck" line profile was such a common bug on BT openreach ADSL, that on his tech support "home screen", he had a "reset line profile" button specifically because of this issue.

The advantage of some of the more business oriented ISPs is that they tend to have better trained tech support people, and tend to have better SLAs in place.

FWIW, I recently (and probably against my better judgement) switch to BT infinity 2. I too have major problems with packet loss and continual line drops/modem reboots. Yet again, BT first line tech support can't do anything useful about it, and cannot escalate the call.

VisionMan

ChumpusRex wrote: »

FWIW, I recently (and probably against my better judgement) switch to BT infinity 2. I too have major problems with packet loss and continual line drops/modem reboots. Yet again, BT first line tech support can't do anything useful about it, and cannot escalate the call.

They are talking rubbish and yes they can. Use this link to get through to the BT Care (UK) team. They are second level support and they will take ownership of the problem -

https://bt.custhelp.com/app/contact_email/c/4950

They can take up to five days to respond but they are very good. Packet loss won't be covered on a domestic SLA but line drops and modem reboots most certainly are! Hope you get it sorted soon.

swagner

I am also having packet loss issues affecting my business and after 2 BT open reach engineer visits getting nowhere.
Any advice?
Steve

JJ_Egan

swagner wrote: »

I am also having packet loss issues affecting my business and after 2 BT open reach engineer visits getting nowhere.
Any advice?
Steve

Is this a business service from BT ??

kwikbreaks

Did you try the link in post #6?

onomatopoeia99

Chaoss wrote: »

. I also use SVN and github to commit and update changes and this often equates to easily over 1TB of usage (about 50/50 upstream/downstream) per month,

If you are that dependent on your internet connection, you should seriously consider a private circuit (leased line).