Estate management charges getting out of control

mikepoole

We have lived in a Redrow new build for the past seven years. When we purchased the house, Redrow said there would an estate management charge of "about £40 per annum"

Countrywide run our management and for the past 7 years have been charging us £140 per annum - I have often queried exactly what it is we are paying for as the layout of the estate means we are charged for communal areas that we have no access to/never use. This, although an annoyance, is not the reason for my post

We had a letter and invoice today saying that there is a deficit for the 2011 accounts with an invoice for an additional £157!!!!

My question is: can I refuse to pay this on any grounds? I am going to go back and ask for an exact breakdown of the deficit plus any invoices (although every time I have asked for invoices in the past/evidence of work carried out I am always met with a stony silence or a simple "we don't break it down to individual invoices" - the estate certainly does not look well maintained)

Ideally we would like to buy ourselves out of this situation and any advice/war stories of similar situations would be most welcome!

I never mind paying for a service/goods but this appears to just be a way to choose random figures to get people to pay. So 2011 will have cost me £300 for pretty much nothing!

princeofpounds

This does not sound like a high charge. Not remotely.

That's not to say it's a fair charge, or that you are getting the right services, or being billed in the right way.

But without much more detail (the legal basis for the charge, the terms under which the charge has been raised, the services being provided and the bills that relate to them etc.) there isn't much we can help with.

Except to say that it's not a big sum of money so I would be surprised if there was any serious abuse here.

comeandgo

Don't you have a committee of home owners who liase with Countrywide to sort out any issues with management? In our estate before any extra costs the committee has to be informed and agree to them.

mikepoole

comeandgo wrote: »

Don't you have a committee of home owners who liase with Countrywide to sort out any issues with management? In our estate before any extra costs the committee has to be informed and agree to them.

Thanks comeandgo - I was not aware of any committee but that certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist!

Do you think the company would divulge who is on the committee (if it exists) if I asked? I'd certainly like to find out who liaises with them to check that the work is actually being carried out

elmer

You could form a Residents Association and self manage, that way the residents control the costs.
When we did this we slashed our management fees from £120.00 per year to £40.00. This year after 10 years the charge is still only £60.00 per year, but you need people keen enough to get involved and stay involved.

elmer

mikepoole

elmer wrote: »

You could form a Residents Association and self manage, that way the residents control the costs.
When we did this we slashed our management fees from £120.00 per year to £40.00. This year after 10 years the charge is still only £60.00 per year, but you need people keen enough to get involved and stay involved.

elmer

Thanks elmer. This implies you can "opt out" or "buy out" of the management as-is. Is this true?

AnnieO1234

Hi OP,

You need to work out what the charges cover, including any sinking fund. Are all state roads adopted? How many residences roughly are there? You can request proof of works carried out if you disagree with the invoice.

Please be aware that management companies can and do hold owners to ransom especially when owner is selling. You also need to be clear whether self-management as a community association is feasible if you suddenly have a bill for many thousands of pounds.

Some management companies refuse to carry out any work at all if one resident is in arrears and depending on the nature of the lease if the property is leasehold can and do approach mortgage companies. You may find you are in breach of your mortgage for failing to pay service charges and ground rent.

Xx

mikepoole

Thanks Annie

When you say "You can request proof of works carried out if you disagree with the invoice.", do they HAVE to provide it?

Over the past 7 years, Countrywide have always been notoriously vague in providing invoices of work carried out. It is fairly obvious that half of what they bill for is not done (maintenance and cleaning of communal areas)

comeandgo

Mike, if there is a committee, or residents association it should be in your deeds that one would be set up. We can't "buy" our way out of ours. What we have looked at is getting the council to take over the parts of the estate the joint owners own, the communal parts but there is too much. We have a few acres and a wood and a stream so the council don't want it without each householder giving them many thousands of pounds each and we would have no control over the work done or how many times the grass cut.
I know one of the things included in our charges, which in total are about £200 a year is insurance. I would think you are entitled to be given a break down of what you are paying but not the exact invoice as I.d expect there to be a percentage added for admin charge.

propertyman

mikepoole wrote: »

Thanks elmer. This implies you can "opt out" or "buy out" of the management as-is. Is this true?

Elmer is incorrect. You live in a house and the "self manage" option, a statutory right , is NOT available to houses, sorry.

Your title deeds or a deed of covenant should indicate the estate rent charge cover a list of services and responsibility for the payee, those that undertake those services.

If they are not up to scratch, or meeting a defined standard e.g. they only mow once every two weeks not weekly, that the latter is actually done properly.

sadly rights to inspect invoices and a breakdown invoice by invoice do not exist for freehold houses and estate rents, so it is a question of asking

1 what services do I get for £x
2 what is their frequency and standard

and taking your dispute to them when they do not comply. Sadly the only legislation that covers you is the Supply of Goods and Services.

propertyman

mikepoole wrote: »

Thanks Annie

When you say "You can request proof of works carried out if you disagree with the invoice.", do they HAVE to provide it?

Over the past 7 years, Countrywide have always been notoriously vague in providing invoices of work carried out. It is fairly obvious that half of what they bill for is not done (maintenance and cleaning of communal areas)

Sorry but as explained yu do not as the rights which Annie believes exist( and not quite in the form that she thinks*) do not apply to estate rent charges or freehold houses.


*http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?43830-Leaseholders-Right-to-Summary-of-Expenditure-LTA-1985-s-21