Wing Parking & Debt Recovery Plus Ltd

Aussie_Londoner

Dear all

My builder parked in front of my flat in London and subsequently got a Wing PCN stuck to his windscreen. This was back in December. I offered to do the leg work on his behalf and came across all these and the newbie posts (thank you all!).

I took the ticket from him and didn't take any action, until recently my builder (the driver/keeper) was sent a Notice of Intended Court Action from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd. Here they slapped on an extra £50 on top of the £100 charge.

What puzzled me was that he never received a Notice to Keeper following the ticket, just a court action letter. He sent me a scan of the court action letter and DRP says "We refer to our letter dated XX/02/14", although he never got anything prior.

What do I do in this situation? Write directly back to the PPC per the templates you guys posted requesting an appeal or to the debt recovery mob?

Key dates:
Ticket received in Dec 2013
Notice of court action received in April 2014
The 'supposed' first letter which he never got was referred to as Feb 2014.

Please help?

Redx

DRP probably do the back office work for wing parking

take this as the first NTK and deal with it in a similar fashion to this one I just replied to which is similar https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4950891

DRP cannot take court action, only the creditor , or actually the landowner or his legally appointed agent

ps:- you should have dealt with it back in december according to the info in here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

Consider waiting for the postal 'Notice to Keeper' in MOST cases, unless it is NCP or WING or a small PPC like 'S.I.P.' or 'JAS' or 'P4Parking aka Nighthawk' who faff about sending TNC debt collector letters and don't even send a NTK.

If so, latest advice is to avoid the debt collector rubbish and appeal to NCP or a little non-POFA2012 ticketer like 'S.I.P.' or 'JAS' or 'P4Parking' straight away but as the KEEPER, not driver! Start a new thread if unsure about 'your' PPC - we can tell you if they are small fry or you can search the forum for their name and read about other people's recent experiences of appealing their tickets first. The reason I have added NCP and WING to this list to appeal early is because of experience on threads where they've refused to deal with the keeper after the NTK and the BPA didn't force them to.

HO87

I'm guessing that where your builder parked was on a London Borough housing estate in either Brent, Wandsworth, RK&C, Greenwich, Islington, Haringey or City of Westminster (or those managed by their arm's length TMO's)?

Their appeals processes are convoluted and do not follow the pattern of other PPC's, often having 2 or 3 levels before you are offered an appeal to the "independent" assessors, POPLA. In the last 2 years WP have launched just 1 court case - so can hardly be described as litigious.

Their PCN's are often emblazoned with the relevant LB logo and it is only when you look at the payment section that one discovers that the money is collected by a private company.

FOIA applications have revealed that WP are contracted to the LB's concerned some of whom receive a cut of what WP collect by way of covering their alleged "loss". In each case it is asserted that the charges represent genuine pre-estimates of loss but when the LB's/TMO's have been asked to produce the calculation showing what their losses were they have admitted that the figure was arrived at simply on the basis that it matched the figure then charged for their FPN's. So obviously no GPEOL there whatsoever.

DR+ are simply debt collectors - regardless of their claim that this is the last warning - and do not carry out back office functions for WP. WP have not been convincing in their adherence to POFA or the BPA guidelines but then they could just have suffered a bad run of luck with Royal Mail. Who knows?

One could safely invite DR+ to take a very long walk off a short pier. WP would appear to have failed - once again - in terms of proper service of a NtK but I would suggest writing an appeal to them (as you propose - using the DR+ letter as the NtK) asking for details of the process - how many levels especially - and who presides over each stage (there may well be one level which is referred to the LB/TMO).

Make sure that the appeal doesn't relate to the facts and deals only with the legal situation - as in the templates.

Coupon-mad

Make sure the builder doesn't actually panic and pay - a debt collector letter cannot lead to court.

Aussie_Londoner

So here is the response from the debt collectors (abridged):



"Per the British Parking Association’s (BPA) Code of Practice, Point 22.7, the driver/keeper was allowed 28 days from the date the PCN was issued and/or 28 days from the date the NtK was sent to challenge the PCN. The time to challenge the charge has now expired and therefore access to the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA) is no longer available.
However, in order to resolve this matter, I will offer the following comments as to why this PCN was correctly issued and is still payable."



...goes on to say that they have photo evidence of the ticket on the windscreen.



Further...



"We feel obligated to inform you that, under the Pre-Action Protocol of the Civil Procedural Rules, court action must only be viewed as a last resort. I am attempting to abide by this direction by trying to settle the matter amicably without court involvement."


And further...



"I must also stress that simply sending in standard template responses, most likely obtained from the internet, will not resolve the matter. In addition, I would recommend that professional legal advice be sought on this matter as an alternative."


Ends with saying the charge is still due...


I am now drafting a response to Wing; and to the Landowner (CofW) to ask if the PCN could be waived/cancelled?


Good approach? (Thanks for all your help!)

Coupon-mad

They should not be asking, should be more telling Wing (forget the debt collector) that in fact POPLA set NO deadline and an appeal can be considered at any stage - the deadline is purely arbitrary by the private parking industry and in fact a refusal to make ADR available is not viewed kindly by the Courts. As is shown by the fact that Judges have ordered cases to be referred to POPLA at very late pre-hearing court stage, e.g.:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=89764

HTH - and YES put pressure on the landowner to see sense. It's not a real PCN, it's an unsolicited invoice and can certainly be cancelled.

Aussie_Londoner

Brilliant. Is there a 'soft' email template to the PPC around on these posts that I can refer to?

Coupon-mad

Try a version of Gan's post on pepipoo in post #30 here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=82895&st=20&start=20

Gan tells it like it is, he writes a nice concise and assertive email!

Aussie_Londoner

According to the newbies posts, the first letter to the PPC (as I have not received a NtK other than the windscreen ticket, followed by a letter directly from the debt collector) is to draft an appeal to the PPC. I propose the following template:

Dear Sir or Madam

PCN reference number XXXXXXXXX

I have received notice from [name: Debt Collector] for the collection of a parking charge invoice and understand you requested that I deal with [name: Debt Collector].

For your information, I have already contacted them and denied the existence of any debt. They have been told to refer the matter back to you and not to contact me again.

I will not respond to any communication from them again.

As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1. The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner

2. Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract

3. You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass

Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

- the legal basis of your charge as your signage was not seen or accepted by the driver and failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how and why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

As take note that:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.


Yours sincerely


Just wondering if this (especially the further notes - (a), (b) and (c) are not to excessive as a first appeal to the PPC.

Your thoughts guys?

bod1467

The further notes are to make the PPC aware that you reserve the right to invoice THEM for wasting your time.

HO87

@Aussie_Londoner - Bear in mind that this may not be the only appeal that you have to make. Wing operate a non-standard appeal system with the LB/arm's length companies they work for. It is entirely possible that you will have to make 3 appeals at least one being through Citywest Homes (which I'm guessing will apply in your case) before you get a POPLA code.