In Private Rental, Owner wants to move back into his house

AnxiousMum

Hi all,

First of all, I know the owner has every right to move back into his house - after all, it is his house!

I moved in here in August with my kids, on a six month lease to be renewed at the end of six months. Come month seven, I asked for a new lease, and the owner wanted to come by for a home inspection. He brought the rental agent with him, we went through room by room - no problems. I initialled all the pages of the 'inspection' and signed the last page agreeing all was in order.

Prior to this, the owner had called me, asking if I would mind renting direct from him, - I advised no problem, as long as the landlord responded when things needed repairing etc. He then said he would need to raise the rent £50 per month - again - that is a fair rent for the market, so I agreed. He then told me that he needed to get out of the contract with the agency, as once he took over the rental management, they were putting the house up for sale. So....I said I would rather stay with the rental agency - as I had more protection with them under the current lease - two months notice if the landlord simply wanted the house back (ie, rent paid on time, up to date, house cared for etc.)

The landlord then said that he would tell the agency he wanted me evicted - make up a reason why I wasn't suitable, and they could then transfer deposit to him, and he would rent to me. I again said no, I wouldn't go along with it, as the agency wouldn't refund any deposit etc. until I was obviously moved out, and if he wanted to get out of his agreement and fees with the agency, then he would have to deal with the agency on this matter himself. I also stated that I wasn't keen on him 'making up a reason' other than the truth, as they were my reference, and hopefully, I would be able to get a house through them again. He agreed to this. he then went away on holidays for two weeks, came back, and I got a very polite letter from the agency stating that the landlord needed to move back into his own home, and that he would regain possession of it on June 1st, 2014. (letter dated March 24th 2014).

Looking around - there are absolutely no four bedroom houses in my area for rent - nothing! In a panic, I have gone to the council and applied to be on the council housing list. They have told me that I need a Section 21 notice to vacate the premises.

The agency is refusing to provide this - stating that if I require it, it will cost me £200 off of my damage deposit - as this is making it difficult for them, and showing my intent to not vacate the premises as requested. The council cannot consider me as 'soon to be homeless' without the Section 21 notice. Catch 22!

Today I have gone down to the agency, and insisted I get a Notice under Section 21 as requested back on April 1st, and each week since. This has just meant that I've burnt bridges with the agency as I'm forcing them to do something that they don't want to do.

I know that to fill out the form, doesn't cost anything - but they have a law firm do them for them - hence the cost.

The guy at the housing needs has been brilliant - very helpful, very friendly but professional. I cannot fault him at all, and I would hope that all staff in housing needs are at least half as good as him!

Any advice on what I should be doing in terms of the Section 21 notice? if I move out on June 1st without it - I make myself intentionally homeless. However, I don't know that my nerves (or my kids nerves) can stand the being here when we know we shouldn't really be (past June 1st), It just seems that to get a place, I have to do the dirty on someone else!

Any advice please?

RAS

Assuming England or Wales as Scottish law is different........

AnxiousMum wrote: »

He agreed to this. he then went away on holidays for two weeks, came back, and I got a very polite letter from the agency stating that the landlord needed to move back into his own home, and that he would regain possession of it on June 1st, 2014. (letter dated March 24th 2014).

Unless this very polite letter refers to the specific part of Section 21, or he served you with notice that this is his sole property before you even signed the contract and he might need to move back in, this polite letter is neither use nor ornament.

And even if it is a Section 21 notice, you do not need to move out at on June 1 2014.

That is merely the first date the LL can start court proceeding to gain possession.

pmlindyloo

I am a bit confused.

Is the landlord really moving back in or has he asked the agency to end your tenancy so he can get rid of the agency?

Anyway, as said previously. You can not be evicted without their issuing you with a Section 21. Even then it is a notice of seeking possession and you do not have to move out until they get a court order. It is also complete rubbish that you should pay for it.

Since the agent are not issuing a Section 21 I am wondering if your deposit is not protected because if it isn't protected then they can't issue you with a Section 21 because non protection of the deposit makes it invalid.

So sit tight until this ill informed agency decides to follow the correct path.

Have you spoken to your landlord recently?

RAS

AnxiousMum wrote: »

Any advice on what I should be doing in terms of the Section 21 notice? if I move out on June 1st without it - I make myself intentionally homeless. However, I don't know that my nerves (or my kids nerves) can stand the being here when we know we shouldn't really be (past June 1st), It just seems that to get a place, I have to do the dirty on someone else!

Council are not supposed to gate-keep but many will consider you intentionally homeless if you leave before June 1. As a rule they will expect you to stay whilst the court case goes through and until a possession order is granted.

Some will insist that you wait for bailiffs to be appointed and advise you of the date of eviction.

You will get a reasonable amount of notice of the court case and can ask for 6 weeks delay before possession is granted. Depending on your area, bailiffs can take 2-8 weeks.

However, this is all a mute point if the LL has yet to issue a S21.

G_M

AnxiousMum wrote: »

Hi all,

He then said he would need to raise the rent £50 per month

Seems strange. He reduces his costs by sacking the agent, but increases your rent....? .

Prior to this, the owner had called me, asking if I would mind renting direct from him, - I advised no problem, as long as the landlord responded when things needed repairing etc. He then said he would need to raise the rent £50 per month - again - that is a fair rent for the market, so I agreed. He then told me that he needed to get out of the contract with the agency, as once he took over the rental management, they were putting the house up for sale. So....I said I would rather stay with the rental agency - as I had more protection with them under the current lease - two months notice if the landlord simply wanted the house back (ie, rent paid on time, up to date, house cared for etc.)
??? Your rights and protection are exactly the same whether the landlord employs an agent or not.

Indeed, I don't understand why he is asking you - it is his decision, not yours!

Your contract is, and has always been, with the LL. The agent is simply someone the LL chooses to employ (or sack!) to manage his business.

The landlord then said that he would tell the agency he wanted me evicted - make up a reason why I wasn't suitable, and they could then transfer deposit to him, and he would rent to me. I again said no, I wouldn't go along with it, as the agency wouldn't refund any deposit etc. until I was obviously moved out, and if he wanted to get out of his agreement and fees with the agency, then he would have to deal with the agency on this matter himself.
correct - it is for the LL to end his contract with his agent, not you.
I also stated that I wasn't keen on him 'making up a reason' other than the truth, as they were my reference,
No reason the landlord cannot give you a reference.

...I got a very polite letter from the agency stating that the landlord needed to move back into his own home, and that he would regain possession of it on June 1st, 2014. (letter dated March 24th 2014).
letter, or S21 Notice? Or S8 Notice?

.... I have gone to the council and applied to be on the council housing list. They have told me that I need a Section 21 notice to vacate the premises.
Correct (or S8)

The agency is refusing to provide this - stating that if I require it, it will cost me £200 off of my damage deposit - as this is making it difficult for them, and showing my intent to not vacate the premises as requested. The council cannot consider me as 'soon to be homeless' without the Section 21 notice. Catch 22!
Ignore the agent.
Ignore the letter.
If the agent, or the landlord want you to leave, they must serve a S21 or S8 (at their own cost!)
If they don't serve a S21/S8, you do not leave.
No need to discuss this. Or tell them. Or ask for a S21.
Just stay.

Today I have gone down to the agency, and insisted I get a Notice under Section 21 as requested back on April 1st, and each week since. This has just meant that I've burnt bridges with the agency as I'm forcing them to do something that they don't want to do.
Yeah. Daft!

I know that to fill out the form, doesn't cost anything - but they have a law firm do them for them - hence the cost.
Not your problem.

Any advice on what I should be doing in terms of the Section 21 notice? if I move out on June 1st without it - I make myself intentionally homeless. However, I don't know that my nerves (or my kids nerves) can stand the being here when we know we shouldn't really be (past June 1st), It just seems that to get a place, I have to do the dirty on someone else!

Any advice please?

Simple.

Don't move out unless or until you receive proper notice to quit from the LL/agent.

That means a S21 or S8 Notice.

Ignore everything else and do not respond.

edit - pmlindyloo makes a good point aout your deposit. If it is not registered, the LL/agent cannot serve a S21 (so yo are even safer!).

Is it registered?
Did you receive the Prescribed Information ?
If you are not sure, contact each of the schemes yourself (NOT the LL or agent) and check. See Deposits

quidsy

And please make sure you have changed the locks front and back.

RAS

quidsy wrote: »

And please make sure you have changed the locks front and back.

Agreed

Even if it says you cannot do so in your contract.

Just change the barrels and replace them when you leave.

pinkshoes

So long as you pay your rent, then they can only evict you by serving you with an S21.

Sounds like they haven't done this, so just do nothing and say nothing.

Even after an S21 has been served, you don't have to move out at the end. Wait for it to go to court...

I_have_spoken

Any advice please?

Seems the LL and agent messing each other about means you can just sit tight until a valid S.21 is served. The LL could serve a Section 8, Ground 1 'landlord wants to live in the property as a permanent home', even if proven to the court you'd have 2 months before LL can apply to court for possession.

princeofpounds

You clearly totally misunderstand how lettings work.

You have a contract with the landlord. The landlord has a contract with an agent. You have no contract with the agent.

The agent can represent the landlord in all respects. But only as long as the landlord keeps them instructed. If the landlord turns up and says the agents have been sacked, that is it. They are no-one to you. Obviously you need to get any changes confirmed in writing by the landlord, particularly concerning addresses to serve notice and methods of payment.

Similarly the agents may have taken and administrated the deposit, but it is the landlord that is responsible for its protection in a scheme and its return to you on exit.

And as for references, these can normally come from either landlord or agent.

Whilst I understand not wanting to get involved in the landlord dumping the agent but retaining you as tenant, which is probably a breach of his contract with the agent, you should understand that in some ways it just isn't your problem.

So as for what is happening now...

- it is not clear if the agent is still instructed by the landlord. Contact the landlord and ask for confirmation in writing (if you want - you can also do nothing). It is possible the agent is trying to deceptively get you to leave because the landlord is dumping them, or it is possible the landlord is instructing them to get rid of you as your presence ties him in to his contract with the agents.

- the only ways to get you to leave are to serve either a section 21 or a section 8 notice. If the request to depart does not fulfil the criteria (and it sounds like it doesn't) then it simply doesn't count at all. Don't move unless you find a better place, in which case give your own notice before you go, or you get a valid notice.

- asking you to pay for a section 21 is just hoodwinking you given you don't understand what one is or what it means. You insisting on a section 21 is just bizarre. If the landlord actually wants you to leave you will get one (section 8 is basically for breaches of the lease like not paying rent for two months)

G_M

pinkshoes wrote: »

So long as you pay your rent, then they can only evict you by serving you with an S21....

Or a S8 eg using Ground 1.

Ground 1

Not later than the beginning of the tenancy the landlord gave notice in writing to the tenant that possession might be recovered on this ground or the court is of the opinion that it is just and equitable to dispense with the requirement of notice and (in either case)—
(a)at some time before the beginning of the tenancy, the landlord who is seeking possession or, in the case of joint landlords seeking possession, at least one of them occupied the dwelling-house as his only or principal home; or
(b)the landlord who is seeking possession or, in the case of joint landlords seeking possession, at least one of them requires the dwelling-house as [F1his, his spouse’s or his civil partner's]F1 only or principal home and neither the landlord (or, in the case of joint landlords, any one of them) nor any other person who, as landlord, derived title under the landlord who gave the notice mentioned above acquired the reversion on the tenancy for money or money’s worth.