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Employer's hire car - does this delay appeal?

2

Comments

  • So should I wait a letter or go ahead and contact them now?

    (I am also a teeny bit nervous. I know this is standard fare for you old hands - but I do have a shot, right?)
  • da_rule
    da_rule Posts: 3,618 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts
    Wait until you hear from them. What you need to do it make sure that your company fills in the relevant part of the form to identify you and sends it back to the parking company.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,806 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 20 April 2014 at 6:34PM
    Don't be nervous but as you say there was a windscreen ticket you have missed the appeal chance. You should however write to them anyway and I would do this NOW, at the same time as the company are naming you as driver. Use a version of the first appeal template from the NEWBIES thread but amended to say you are the driver (not the rk).

    As an aside, this is disappointing to read as you sadly brought this hassle upon yourself (sorry). I have no clue why you would have ever ignored a windscreen PCN when the car isn't your own. Even when the old advice used to be 'ignore' that was NEVER the case when it was a company car because obviously the PPC would always be bound to write and bother the company. This is a headache for you.

    I doubt you will get an IAS code, but you should send a challenge asap with both PCN numbers written at the top. Just to state your case really. KEEP ALL LETTERS.

    I suspect you will get all sorts of debt collector drivel over the coming months as you really missed a trick here and cannot rewind the clock as it was a windscreen ticket (the NEWBIES thread explains this is only possible where the driver has had no PCN). PCN/NW have been known to try the odd small claim but I have never seen them win one and they normally fold. They lost the only one I know they proceeded to a hearing with (posted about just the other week on pepipoo forum).

    Just to ask, is one of the NTK letters in time to appeal, or are the NTKs both older than 28 days?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • KatytheCAr
    KatytheCAr Posts: 8 Forumite
    Sorry CM, I checked the forum for a few days but didn't see your reply. My employers sent the letter I asked them to. I decided to wait as advised for a letter.

    Instead Roxburghe have sent my employer another two letters. One from Gladstones solicitors and another Roxburghe letter.

    They say that because they never received a reply to the original PCN, the Notice to Keeper or subsequent letters the Protection of Freedoms ACT applies and they are liable. So it sounds as though they want to carry on harassing my employer.

    I take it I should send a challenge to parking company myself at this point? Or to the IPC? Or both?

    Should I also report them to the OFT? If I had someone official like the OFT backing me up it might make my employers relax.

    It's reassuring to hear they either don't proceed or lose their cases.

    I'll double check the NTK dates. The problem is because it goes through admin at work they get delayed before I get told.
  • Stroma
    Stroma Posts: 7,971 Forumite
    Uniform Washer
    Pofa 2012 does not say that at all, they are lying! Also your company has discharged liability (finally) , so they won't be taking anyone to court over this as it will be rebutted straight away. They are trying it on with your company as they see them as the soft spot on this.

    The problem is that the only way to make complaints is through your company, but I think a complaint from you on this is worthy of a try, see how the IPC will react to this, they are supposed be solicitors so they know that pofa 2012 doesn't say what roxburghe says they do!
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    :beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:
  • bod1467
    bod1467 Posts: 15,214 Forumite
    They need to be reported to the IPC* and DVLA. Your employer has discharged their liability under POFA by naming the driver when they received the Notice to Keeper - your employer now has no legal liability.

    If your employer is amenable, I'd suggest that they send Rox/Glad/PCN(NW) a cease-and-desist letter, stating that they will sue for harassment if they continue to falsely allege keeper liability.

    * I appreciate that this may be pointless, as IPC and Gladstones are effectively one and the same. But having the audit trail of compliance with process will work in OP's favour.
  • KatytheCAr
    KatytheCAr Posts: 8 Forumite
    26 Feb Notice to driver addressed to a hire car administrator at my firm (says NTK was sent to hire company, who have named the driver and 28 days have passed)
    1st April Unpaid PCN this also refers to my company as the 'driver' in the body of the text
    17 April Gladstone solicitors letter to my company 'Due to the absence of payment or a valid appeal'
    22 April - My company send details of my name and address to Roxburghe
    25 April - letter to Gladstones saying correspondence sent to Roxburghe
    29 April - This most recent letter saying they will pursue my employer as the keeper.

    I've noticed that in the wording of PoFA it says the keeper is only liable if

    (1b) The creditor is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.

    However it then adds:

    (2)Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper.
  • andylong42
    andylong42 Posts: 106 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Hi,

    I had a very similar situation here:-

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4817408
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,806 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    KatytheCAr wrote: »
    26 Feb Notice to driver addressed to a hire car administrator at my firm (says NTK was sent to hire company, who have named the driver and 28 days have passed)
    1st April Unpaid PCN this also refers to my company as the 'driver' in the body of the text
    17 April Gladstone solicitors letter to my company 'Due to the absence of payment or a valid appeal'
    22 April - My company send details of my name and address to Roxburghe
    25 April - letter to Gladstones saying correspondence sent to Roxburghe
    29 April - This most recent letter saying they will pursue my employer as the keeper.

    I've noticed that in the wording of PoFA it says the keeper is only liable if

    (1b) The creditor is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.

    However it then adds:

    (2)Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper.

    Exactly - we know - that's what we are saying. They have NOT begun court proceedings. Writing letters is not court proceedings.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • KatytheCAr
    KatytheCAr Posts: 8 Forumite
    So, hopefully I have got this right:

    Do I send the first stage appeal template letter to Rox, PCNNW and Gladstones as the driver requesting an IAS code.

    Get my company to send another letter to insist they have discharged liabilty and forward complaints to me.

    Send a complaint to the DVLA and IPC re the harrassment of my employer? - Do I use a template letter?

    Do I have this right?
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