Peel Centre Excel PCN appeal turned down as after 28 day period

Flying_girl

I'm sure it's fine, thank you, I've edited it to enter my details
Regards

Coupon-mad

Flying_girl wrote: »

Thank you very much for all your helpful replies, I really appreciate it, I'll send off the letter today using the wording you have suggested and hopefully I will get somewhere this time.
Regards

Thread just like yours here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4945624&

Compare notes with that poster - your drivers should both get a PCN and in the absence of that should be rattling the cages of the BPA and Excel, making it crystal clear that the driver has been denied their right to appeal. Therefore, if Excel do ever choose your cases for a small claim you and the other poster will both be able to show that the driver has never even received a PCN at all. Don't let any letter/email go without a reply, and use email as that will give you a copy of all comms and will save you wasting any stamps on this rubbish.

Flying_girl

I've received this back from the BPA

Thank you for your communication that has been passed to me to move forward.

As of today’s date I have not received any follow up documentation as regards your complaint.
Therefore I will deal with it as per the e mail details you have sent.

Under the code of practice if you supply the driver details and there is a dispute by the driver the operator can then pursue the keeper of the vehicle.
This can be seen under section 23.3 of the code for operators at the end as follows”…However, if the keeper did not give details about the driver or hirer, or if the driver or hirer refuses to acknowledge their liability, you would be able to pursue the registered keeper…”.
Unfortunately by just giving over the driver details you do not discharge your obligations under POFA 2012.

Having looked at the situation I do not feel there is a case for excel to answer but you can always have your time in court to make your point of view heard.
I would leave that up to you but as we stand at the moment I’m afraid I will be closing the file on the matter.


I'm totally confused now, what shall I do next?
Thanks agin for all your help, really appreciated

bod1467

Utter bollox! A registered keeper can discharge their liabilities by naming the driver. The driver can then dispute the veracity of the claim ... this does NOT give license for the PPC to pursue again the registered keeper.

See the flowchart on page 20. (PDF file)

Flying_girl

The whole 28 day thing seems to be an issue, I've just phoned Excel as I'm so fed up of this whole fiasco, basically they said as I didn't reply within 28 days the debt collection agency is now dealing with my case. They refised to discuss the case with me! I informed them a month ago of the drivers name and address however they have not sent any correspondence to them at all. Feel I'm going round in circles!

Redx

in that case if they refuse your appeal and will not give you a popla code and also wont send the driver a pcn in their own name its either make sure the BPA are aware of this breach (naming the driver absolves you under pofa 2012) , and complain to the landowner and try to get a cancellation

or

you wait for an LBC or court papers and deal with it then

(or you pay say £16 and see if the alternative service to help motorists can help you, details on pranksters blogs)

AoD

Rule No 1: NEVER phone a parking company

Rule No 2: NEVER EVER phone a parking company!!

The BPA are clearly talking utter rubbish when they state "Unfortunately by just giving over the driver details you do not discharge your obligations under POFA 2012.".

Did you review the link above from Bod? It clearly states;

"If the keeper provides the driver’s details (and a serviceable address) the keeper cannot be liable for the parking charge. The landholder may then seek recovery of the unpaid parking charge from the driver."

Go back to the BPA and quote that.

da_rule

AoD, unfortunately in the box at the top of the flow chart they put a 28 day deadline on it too, and the box to the left also says that if no response is received within 28 days then action can be taken against the RK. I have no idea where they get this interpretation from, as the Act does not make it clear that this is what was intended.

ampersand

Do not waste time, money or emotional energy, stress-adding at best, by phoning them. Leave printable trails of your correct step-by-step conduct at every point.

Do not communicate with debt collectors.

From the flowchart bod directed you to, look at the arrowed boxes down below. Look at the 2nd one clock-wise, which says: 'If the keeper provides the driver’s details (and a serviceable address) the keeper cannot be liable for the parking charge. The landholder may then seek recovery of the unpaid parking charge from the driver.'

Now 'I draw your attention to your own DOT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012: Recovery of Unpaid Parking Charges. Page 20 says this:[as above.]'

Mr Clark, I require, by return, your assurance that the file remains open until I have proof of the driver receiving a POPLA code. Please direct the company which issued the original unenforceable invoice to supply this, in keeping with BPA Guidance.

Any communication which does not relate directly to this amounts to harassment.

Do you refuse to exercise your authority and direct Excel to supply a POPLA code to the driver? If you have no such authority, what purpose does your organisation or its directions serve?

My file notes this matter has now been dragging on for over 6 months. For[supply exact no. of days-your#1, here :'I wrote to Rossendales Collect and Excel explaining that I was the keeper but my son was the driver']The Peel Centre, Excel and their debt collectors have been aware of the driver's name. Without a POPLA code supplied, there will be no further communication.'

op - what I don't see is any mention of you ringing, pestering, hounding Peel or the place you attended for your Course. Regardless of where this matter goes next, this is strong evidence for you. But its first purpose is to gain cancellation of this money grab. That's where your phone energy can serve you best[although I always prefer the written word - always 'the trail' for me, plus dates.]

Do listen to redx, who gives hours and hours daily to these Threads and always cares about each and every poster's situation. Look past what you think you are hearing in terms of 'friendly/not friendly'. This forum is not like that: Redx is definitely not.

If you look at the whole parking section of mse daily, you will see dozens of new people, frightened, worried, having much bigger things to cope with in their daily lives, all seeking reassurance, help, guidance. Now look down the list of 'latest replies'. Over and over again, were you to monitor this over even one single day. you'd begin to realise the number of people who plough hours of their own time daily into defeating this despicable, filthy, bounty-hunting, scamming trade built on profit from lies.

Flying Girl - you will fly, free as a bird, if you just take heart - bossing again, don't phone the scammers or their disciples - and keep on at Steve Clark.

He's increasingly under pressure precisely because people, starting off on this process just like you, are becoming wiser to scumpany games.

I had to remind him several times, despite 'file now closed' twice: it WAS his cattle prod that produced 2 POPLA codes, eventually. My Appeal successes emails arrived yesterday. Now I am invoicing pe for my costs - as will you; time, stationery, postage, phone calls, harassment,+ £18 per hr.
#
da-rule: it's all down to interpretation, I would say, as strict grammarian, that if they wanted the 28-day rule to apply, that should be placed after the list of all the possible options which are separated by commas. As it stands, it applies only to the element which precedes it. So, driver's name can be supplied beyond that time limit. If they do not mean this, it must be re-written.

Flying_girl

I've had a very quick reply from the BPA, I sent all the letters from both Excel and Rossendales collect to him via email today, this is his email back to me, not sure where I go from here, seem to be fighting a losing battle!!


Dear Xxxxxxxxx
As a follow up if you read clause 20.16 of the code which is set out below the parking operator can pursue the keeper.
This can happen even though they have the driver details as the details were given over the stipulated time limit.

20.16 If the keeper does not reply within 28 days, or refuses to
give enough details about the driver, under Schedule 4 of
POFA 2012 you are able to pursue the keeper for the
unpaid parking charge.

The parking charge notice (PCN) was on xxxxSeptember 2013 and the only mention of you notifying details of the driver is on a communication dated xxxxApril 2014.
Certainly there was no mention of the driver's details being known on correspondence in March which, at that point, would have been at least 150 days after the PCN.
Therefore you did not notify the operator within the 28 day period after receiving the notice to keeper therefore you would become liable for the parking charge notice.

Unfortunately there is nothing we can do and the enquiry is closed.

Regards
Dave


David Metcalf
Operations Manager
British Parking Association
Tel: 01444 447 302
Fax: 01444 454 105
Email: david.m@britishparking.co.uk
Web: https://www.britishparking.co.uk




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