Uk cmp ltd ticket

Mighty_Atom

Can you help - have read lots of threads, but still not sure whether I have a case - car was ticketed in a private housing estate whose car park is managed by UK Car Park Management Ltd (I am the registered keeper, but was not the driver). I have just received a NTK - driver had parked the car (which did not have a permit) in a lay-by, which had double yellow lines across it, but they did not extend into it. It was left there overnight. The NTK shows 2 pitch black photos with just the numberplate illuminated and you can't really make anything else out on the photographs. The driver says that he doesn't even recall seeing any notices (the area has only just been finished and landscaping etc was still being carried out when he parked). He has returned to the site and taken pictures of notices that are now up (details below), but of course, he can't be sure when the notices appeared on site.
Notice details are:(sorry am rubbish at IT so can't attach photo!)
"Valid UK PCM permit & Tax disc must be clearly displayed at all times. No parking outside of designated parking area/parking bay eg access roads/yellow lines/paved/hatched or landscaped areas. TERMS OF PARKING WITHOUT PERMISSION - you do so at your own risk & are contractually agreeing to pay a parking charge fee. Parking charge Notice £100 per day or reduced sum of £60 if payment made within 14 days. Failure to pay within 28 days may result in the Registered Keeper details being requested from DVLA. Unpaid parking charges may be passed to our debt recovery agents, which may incur added costs."
I am within the time limits to appeal to UK CPM Ltd. Would appreciate any information - have only just found this site, which is brilliant - have spent 2 evenings reading many, many posts - but am still not too sure what to do next!!

da_rule

I don'n understand how it isn't clear if you have read the Newbies sticky thread.

Was the PCN from a private company (rather than Police/Council)? I'll assume yes.

Do you want to pay it? I'll assume no.

Then just do as the Newbie sticky thread tells you to do. Appeal using the template in the thread to UK PCM, wait for them to reject the appeal, then appeal to POPLA and win.

Umkomaas

@OP - please be absolutely precise about who the PPC is. There is no UKCMP on the BPA or IPC AOS lists (as per your thread title).

You've given us in the one post - UKCMP, UKCPM and UKPCM

This is important in terms of how we advise you.

da_rule

The OP did mention "UK Car Park Management Ltd" which is what I based the POPLA advice on, but as you say there are three different abbreviations/company names used.

Mighty_Atom

Blimey, just shows I should proof read my posts before sending - so sorry for the typos - the company is UK Car Park Management Ltd. Thanks for the replies.

Umkomaas

UKCPM use a 'contractual charge' clause on their signage, so the POPLA appeal needs to be carefully drafted.

First things first - send off your initial appeal to them as per the sticky template, then get yourself a POPLA code.

Meantime put UKCPM into the forum's search engine and check recent threads where a POPLA appeal has been drafted and which accommodates and challenges the 'contractual charge' clause.

ColliesCarer

Thanks for confirming that - just follow the advice in da_rule's post #2 above - the NEWBIES thread is linked below for you

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

Use the 1st appeal template letter you will find there - no need include anything else.
In the mean time use the sticky thread post #3 to gen up on what you will need to know for the next appeal stage to POPLA.

When you get the rejection letter (including a POPLA code) which is the most likely outcome btw - you will need some assistance to draft your POPLA appeal as I think I'm right in saying UKCPM use a contractual fee model which needs different wording for the "Not a Genuine pre estimate of loss" appeal ground than most of the example POPLA appeal you will see

Edit - apologies umkomaas - my browser wasn't showing your response until I'd sent mine

Mighty_Atom

Thanks for that - ColliesCarer (I am a labrador carer!) I have looked at the template letter and am very grateful for your advice - however, in your post you say that "UKCPM use a contractual fee model which needs different wording for the "Not a Genuine pre estimate of loss" - but the template letter in point 1) says "The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner" does that mean I should omit that from my letter to the parking company?
As an aside - I am amazed at how helpful you and your other knowledgeable contributors are to this site - what a wonderful service you provide, and all in your own time - I (and I am sure many, many other people) are indebted to you all.

Umkomaas

Don't worry about your initial appeal to the PPC, all you want from them is a POPLA code. Ideally you'd like a cancellation but that's harder to come by.

However by putting in the GPEOL point (and others) they will know they are dealing with someone who's been doing some homework and being advised by a parking forum, so they know you won't be a pushover.

What you write in your initial appeal, doesn't restrict or constrain you in terms of what you put in your POPLA appeal.

Coupon-mad

Mighty_Atom wrote: »

Thanks for that - ColliesCarer (I am a labrador carer!) I have looked at the template letter and am very grateful for your advice - however, in your post you say that "UKCPM use a contractual fee model which needs different wording for the "Not a Genuine pre estimate of loss" - but the template letter in point 1) says "The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner" does that mean I should omit that from my letter to the parking company?
As an aside - I am amazed at how helpful you and your other knowledgeable contributors are to this site - what a wonderful service you provide, and all in your own time - I (and I am sure many, many other people) are indebted to you all.

The template first appeal in the NEWBIES thread was written with firms like UKCPM in mind. That's why it asks them to explain the nature of the charge, so you can use their reply when they dig a hole, to help with POPLA stage. Please post a photo of the sign which you will see is what we ask for in most UKCPM threads (please search and read them as suggested already, they are bit different and one person lost at POPLA - currently the subject of a complaint so not a real recorded 'loss').

Mighty_Atom

Have just received my unsuccessful appeal letter from UK Car Park Management. As advised by coupon-mad (thanks), I need to post a photograph of the Car Park sign - I have saved the photo in a word document, but can't attach - can anyone advise how (IT skills rubbish)? The letter says "appeal has been unsuccessful as a breach of the Terms & Conditions of parking occurred. The decision has been made on the basis of:
Vehicle did not clearly display a valid permit in the windscreen.
The photographic evidence supports the above statement .
Signage clearly states "PERMITS MUST BE CLEARLY DISPLAYED IN WINDSCREEN AT ALL TIMES"
It goes on to say that "with regards to the fee, it is a pre-estimate of loss....attendant patrols/maintenance of motor equipment/PCN processing..".etc (I can give the full wording if wanted).
"You state that signage is not clear, however there is clear and prominent signage throughout the development".
With regards to my request for land ownership details, they say that they cannot disclose such information. These are the main points of the letter, but as I stated, if you need the full wording, I will be happy to post it. I will look at the most recent POPLA templates for UK Car Park Management for the next stage of my appeal. Any help very much appreciated.