Don't give in to Microsoft. There are alternatives

RumRat

prowla wrote: »

Right now I'm on a Mac, with an Excel spreadsheet (held on a TrueCrypt drive) open in Microsoft Office Mac. I'm viewing this web page in Firefox and also have the Mac's mail app open.

I've got a Ubuntu VM running in a window (which I use to connect to some systems I work on over an encrypted VPN); the VM's disk is encrypted.

I've also got Windows 8.1 running in a VM in another window (which I'm running Outlook to an Exchange server, and Lync for chat); the VM's disk is encrypted.

I may need to run up another Linux VM to work on some other systems during the day, and possibly connect to a remote Citrix Windows 7 desktop.

It all seems to hang together.

(But Windows 8 is the most difficult to use, even to the point where the highlighting of selected items is very faint, so it's not so easy to see what you are doing.)

Windows might be more difficult to use in your situation, which, to be fair, isn't common and won't be the experience of the vast majority of home users. However, I don't see the problem you seem to have concerning highlighting, very visible on my machine.

prowla

KxMx wrote: »

I customised XP in a similar fashion when I first got it.

No computer OS is perfect nor have I ever used a PC where I have not fiddled with things before being happy with the settings.

Very happy with Win 8 there that better for you?

My mother in her mid 50's had just a few lessons on Windows 8 before the new PC was installed.

Her words after a few days use?

"It's wonderful and much superior to our old XP machine"

You are never going to be happy with Win 8 and will always find things to nit pick about it, scaring other people off what is a perfectly useable OS.

Don't bother replying because I won't see it. Can't debate with someone who has such a fixed viewpoint.

I have better things to do with my time.

Toys, pram...

prowla

RumRat wrote: »

Windows might be more difficult to use in your situation, which, to be fair, isn't common and won't be the experience of the vast majority of home users. However, I don't see the problem you seem to have concerning highlighting, very visible on my machine.

Remembering that the thread title is "Don't give in to Microsoft. There are alternatives.", I am merely pointing out that there are indeed alternatives, even improvements.

In mentioning my setup, I was more demonstrating that I actively use multiple OSes, and thereby have a view across them, and I don't feel I have to blindly accept a vendor's latest and greatest offering.

Some people seem to get upset that there isn't universal adulation of Windows 8, and even get in a grump because I say it's a worse product than the version it replaces. But I guess it takes all types.

As far as using Windows 8, I'm really just using it as a platform for Microsoft Office (Word, Excel, Project, Visio, Outlook, Lync), which is not atypical, and the new styling makes it more difficult to use. I'm a customer, and that's what I've found in using the product. In fairness to Microsoft they have addressed one issue in the latest version of Excel - it's finally gone SDI!

On the specific point about the highlighting is in Outlook; I select one or more mails and drag them to a folder; the highlighting of the target folder is very faint (a very light blue on a grey background), so I have to concentrate to see it.

kwikbreaks

Mr_Toad wrote: »

What is it you think you can't do on a Mac?

There are a whole host of specialist amateur radio programs that are Windows only. Almost certainly there are no Mac equivalents. Probably the same goes for lots of other hobby related open source stuff.

Mr_Toad

kwikbreaks wrote: »

There are a whole host of specialist amateur radio programs that are Windows only. Almost certainly there are no Mac equivalents. Probably the same goes for lots of other hobby related open source stuff.

Hmm... hardly mainstream but.....

No reason why they can't run in a Windows VM on the Mac or under Wine or a commercial version like Crossover.

I know a couple of amateur radio enthusiasts on Linux who run old Windows based programs under Wine or similar.

RumRat

prowla wrote: »

Remembering that the thread title is "Don't give in to Microsoft. There are alternatives.", I am merely pointing out that there are indeed alternatives, even improvements.

In mentioning my setup, I was more demonstrating that I actively use multiple OSes, and thereby have a view across them, and I don't feel I have to blindly accept a vendor's latest and greatest offering.

Some people seem to get upset that there isn't universal adulation of Windows 8, and even get in a grump because I say it's a worse product than the version it replaces. But I guess it takes all types.

As far as using Windows 8, I'm really just using it as a platform for Microsoft Office (Word, Excel, Project, Visio, Outlook, Lync), which is not atypical, and the new styling makes it more difficult to use. I'm a customer, and that's what I've found in using the product. In fairness to Microsoft they have addressed one issue in the latest version of Excel - it's finally gone SDI!

On the specific point about the highlighting is in Outlook; I select one or more mails and drag them to a folder; the highlighting of the target folder is very faint (a very light blue on a grey background), so I have to concentrate to see it.

OK, I see your highlighting problem, thought you meant highlighting of text etc. I don't have a problem with it personally, so, guessing, it's an individual problem..:)
I take your point about people getting upset if an OS is disliked, it happens with them all.
I don't really care what people use or if they don't like W8, however, I do think that a lot of the criticism/comments are made out of ignorance and need to be corrected. Indeed some say it's rubbish but admit to never having it or even tried it. I wouldn't dream of commenting on a Mac issue for example as I don't use one. The only time I use IOS is on an iPad.
My Brother in law bought a laptop with W8 and decided it wasn't for him. He returned it and came away with a Macbook Pro. He quite likes it but admits it's as much, if not more, of a learning curve than W8. I guess his head is into the Mac more as he's learning from scratch and not trying to do things like he used to do..:D

prowla

RumRat wrote: »

OK, I see your highlighting problem, thought you meant highlighting of text etc. I don't have a problem with it personally, so, guessing, it's an individual problem..:)
I take your point about people getting upset if an OS is disliked, it happens with them all.
I don't really care what people use or if they don't like W8, however, I do think that a lot of the criticism/comments are made out of ignorance and need to be corrected. Indeed some say it's rubbish but admit to never having it or even tried it. I wouldn't dream of commenting on a Mac issue for example as I don't use one. The only time I use IOS is on an iPad.
My Brother in law bought a laptop with W8 and decided it wasn't for him. He returned it and came away with a Macbook Pro. He quite likes it but admits it's as much, if not more, of a learning curve than W8. I guess his head is into the Mac more as he's learning from scratch and not trying to do things he used to do..:D

Yes - I'm just finding each thing is a little more niggley to do under Windows 8.

I would surmise that the reduction in fidelity of the UI is partly down to Microsoft's online Office "Live" product, which they've had to design to run on a range of internet-connected kit which may not be quite as powerful as your average desktop PC with dedicated graphics processor. That's all well and good, but the problem with one size fits all is that you have to go to the lowest common denominator.

From my background, as you know I use multiple OS's, but I've also had an interest in user interfaces, and it seems to me that Windows 8 breaks basic UI rules (consistency of style, predictability, etc.), and that's why I say it is (ahem) rubbish.

I recently got a Mac mini (I bought a s/h 2011 model, because it's better than the current one!), and honestly the transition from Windows 7 to Mac OS X has been easier than to Windows 8, and it just just generally feels like quality.

I genuinely like Windows 7, but Windows 8 is all in the wrong direction for me.

henm2

A lot of the newer XP machines may be able to change to Windows 7 or even Windows 8. There is learning curve to this.
If you are going to learn a new OS anyway why not try a good free alternative such as a linux based one and no harder than the windows ones and much safer with good quality software included.
For older machines up to 10 years old I would suggest LXLE (an enhanced version of Lubuntu) which I am currently using on a 5 year old laptop.
For a modern machine I would recommend, as many others have said, Linux Mint 16 cinnamon edition (Linux Mint 17 will be released the end of May if you prefer to wait)

anotheruser

Why any home user is still using XP, I don't know. You wouldn't buy a 7 year old PC.

Some corporations still use XP, including many ATM machines but they have just been lazy and left it until the last minute.

People may remember the problems with Vista (I had very little), but Windows 7 is completely different, as is Windows 8.

Also, Microsoft are a lot nicer as upgrades to their mobile operating system are passed to work on low-end phones as well as high end equipment, so EVERYONE can enjoy it, rather than Google overloading Android and Apple only offering a premium product.

prowla

anotheruser wrote: »

Why any home user is still using XP, I don't know. You wouldn't buy a 7 year old PC.

Some corporations still use XP, including many ATM machines but they have just been lazy and left it until the last minute.

People may remember the problems with Vista (I had very little), but Windows 7 is completely different, as is Windows 8.

Also, Microsoft are a lot nicer as upgrades to their mobile operating system are passed to work on low-end phones as well as high end equipment, so EVERYONE can enjoy it, rather than Google overloading Android and Apple only offering a premium product.

Well, I use some Dell 755 PCs, which were introduced in 2008, so that's 6 years anyway. They are perfectly viable systems, though memory is quite expensive.

I still use XP to run some programs which aren't supported on later versions, and am likely to continue to until I no longer need the software; that includes a scanner (I don't see why I should buy a new one just because Microsoft decided to obsolete the OS), a laser printer (no drivers), a couple of programs to manage gadgets, and a couple of games (as soon as the game runs full-screen the underlying OS is irrelevant). I'll continue to use XP for them for several years.

The corporations, banks and governments are paying Microsoft for extended support on XP; they haven't been lazy, but rather haven't seen the value in updating to a newer version, and many companies don't plan to go to Windows 8. As far as ATM machines go, they are in a closed environment, and so are extremely unlikely to be vulnerable to attack from anything internet-based.

The low-end Windows phones aren't that nice either; my work replaced Blackberrys with Windows phones and decided to roll out Microsoft Nokia 520s; there was a rather lame attempt at animation on the home page, but nothing else was very nice and nobody else seemed to enjoy the experience. I tried connecting to the Microsoft app store and it kept failing, so that didn't work very well. I gave up on it and upgraded to a s/h iPhone 4 which I bought on gumtree for around the £100 mark (around the price of a new SIM-free Microsoft Nokia 520), and the Microsoft Nokia one is consigned to the bottom of my work bag never switched on since.

I've also got an Android phone, with a spare SIM in it, and it's a little bit techie-orientated for me. My kids quite like theirs as do a couple of friends who have them.

On upgrading Windows, I would say that Windows 7 is a sensible option; it does everything that XP does, but just better. However, not all systems will be up to to the job... Windows XP's minimum requirements were a 233 MHz CPU and 64 MB memory; that simply won't support Windows 7 (nor 8), whose minimum requirements are a 1 GHz processor and 1 GB memory (though I would suggest 2 GB).