Ticket for parking in my own bay?!

Stroma

You can place links without the http://www part of the link, and you can host your images on tinypic.com

bod1467

She could ... but it looks very like a standard UKCPM sign. It says a contractual charge for a failure to comply (show a permit), so GPEOL dressed up as a contractual charge.

@The Deep ... if this OP wasn't changing car so soon then your stance may have some merit. In THIS case it doesn't - the OP needs to hook things their way immediately to avoid future complications.

Stroma

I can't see it being a problem to be honest, the dvla takes an age to change RK details, and if it's a part ex then it will probably just sit on a forecourt for months, eventually when it's sold on it won't have anything to do with the new owner.

Hot_Bring

Sparsholt wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice. I am sure the permit is not mention in the lease as the parking management was brought in some time later (years) but I will try and find my original paperwork for the flat purchase.

If that's the case then you might want to send them the following :

Dear UKCPM,

Re : Parking Charge xxxxx

The registered keeper rejects that UKCPM has any authority to override the lease associated to parking space. In reality the RK owns the space and hasn't given you permission to even enter the space in question. The lease, which lays out the owners rights to the landowner, makes no reference to the requirements to display a permit.

This means that you have no authority to issue ANY charge and any court in the land will uphold this.

You should now cancel to charge or you may be taken to court for trespass and harassment.

No further correspondence will be entered into.

Regards,

Print Name ( don't sign )

The_Deep

I am all in favour of that HB, OP is the property owner with all the rights and privileges which go with it.

Sparsholt

I have been passed a parking charge notice from the driver of this car and as the registered keeper I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

• My car was parked in my allocated parking bay.
• Insufficient period of grace was given (5 minutes stated on the parking charge notice). This did not give the driver sufficient time to remove the permit from the car, climb the stairs, write a short note to the flat sitter who would be living at the property to place the permit in their car and return to the car to move it. On return to the car of a very short period of time of approximately 5 to 10 minutes a ticket had been placed on the car.
• The registered keeper rejects that UKCPM has any authority to override the lease associated to parking space. In reality the owner of the space and hasn't given you permission to even enter the space in question. The lease, which lays out the owners rights to the landowner, makes no reference to the requirements to display a permit.
• The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
• Your signage does not comply with your British Parking Association Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
• You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass. I request a copy of the signed/dated landowner contract and all the terms in it. I understand that your client is Brady Estates, the managing agent (another third party, not the site owner). Please confirm who requested your services at this site and the reason you were approached. I require proof that the actual landholder Admirals Wharf Ltd authorises this parking operation at this site, issuing tickets for this reason/amount and assigning UK Car Park Management/ CPM the standing to make contracts with drivers and pursue charges in the courts in their own name.
  
  Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter then I will require details of how to appeal to POPLA and the code number. Also it must state:
  - the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and as keeper I require you to make the basis of the charge clear.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

Take formal note:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the parking charge notice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to BPA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Guys_Dad

The position is very simple. The forum has an almost 100% record with wins at POPLA, Courts are much more of a lottery and we can NOT claim 100% wins there.

It seems a no brainer to use POPLA given that you can always fall back on the court if for any inexplicable reason POPLA has a brainstorm and turns you down.

However, you will NOT win at POPLA based on your ownership and lease of the space. You must use one of our template appeals focusing on GPEOL . But come back when you have the POPLA code.

Coupon-mad

bod1467 wrote: »

She could ... but it looks very like a standard UKCPM sign. It says a contractual charge for a failure to comply (show a permit), so GPEOL dressed up as a contractual charge.

Yes - but that was the same 'quirky' sign that fooled the POPLA assessor in lesnmandy's case which is the subject of a complaint to the Lead Adjudicator this year.

Sparsholt, that appeal you posted above is fine for this stage - but use the one I wrote for the other UKCPM case yesterday, at POPLA stage (suitably adapted):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/65148860#Comment_65148860

I also hope you've read other similar threads now and practised searching the forum as suggested, to find those threads. Once you can search this forum and click (one click, see my signature) back to page one of this board, you can use any forum!

HTH

Sparsholt

Thank you Coupon-mad. I did use some of your content for the first stage and would be very interested in the outcome of this POPLA appeal. I thought that by going in strong with the first letter that they would realise we are not going to be a walk over and would be more likely to cancel the ticket. Here's hoping anyway!! I am still waiting for the parking permits for 2 different bays (they are suppose to be issued in a timely fashion) so I am going to chase the managing agents for the flats and ask for 2 permits per space so that I have a spare to pass to my visitors and cannot get caught without a permit. It will be very interesting to see if this is allowed!

Sparsholt

Just posted my appeal to the parking charge notice at the post office, cannot send recorded or registered as the address for appeals to UK CPM is a PO Box so they can pretend they haven't received it!!! I got the post office to give me a receipt as proof of posting.