Ticket for parking in my own bay?!

Sparsholt

I was parked in my parking bay ( I own the flat and allocated parking bay under leasehold NOT Freehold and had previously rented my property but moved into the flat on 27th Feb. previous Tenants gave me a parking permit to put in my car) and removed the permit to take up to my flat to leave it with a note to my daughter who would be flat sitting while I went on holiday. I then went back down to move my car and in that short period of time received a ticket (observed time of 5 minutes on the ticket). I was the driver but not the registered keeper of the car (my husband is the registered keeper but the car is going back to Fords on Thursday clearing the loan and we get a new car). I have been reading so many threads on the site and my 14 days to appeal as the driver will be up soon. Should I wait until they do the DVLA check and see if they write to my husband? We haven't changed our address yet with DVLA as changing car or will they write to Fords? Would I as the driver and Leasehold owner of flat and car park bay fair better than my husband who is not the owner of the flat and parking bay?


I did email the Management Company to request their help to waive the charge, they said they couldn't help and put me onto their contact at UK Car Park Management. I emailed her and she said she could not help as she is in sales and I would have to appeal as stated on the back of the notice. After reading through the many threads on this site I then emailed the Management Company who I believe have instructed this car park management firm for confirmation as to who owns the parking bay and for a copy of the contract with UK Car Park Management. He stated that Admirals Wharf Ltd are the Freeholders but no address and could not provide a copy of the contract. Interestingly I am swopping car parking bays with another flat owner and am still waiting for the parking permit.


Any help will be gratefully received.
Thank you

Hot_Bring

A quick question - does your lease say you have to display a permit ?

Stroma

I would wait for the notice to keeper to arrive, then appeal using the wording on the sticky thread by coupon mad, I suggest you do read the whole thread though.

As for the management company, they are probably responsible for engaging these cretins, so of course it has something to do with them, they probably earn out of this and it will be one of them self ticketing you. Look at your lease which you must have if you are changing parking bays with your neighbour, it's part of your legal pack on buying this apartment.

The_Deep

Firstly read this

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

then google UKPC own space. and search this board.

Both the managing agent and the PPC may be committing a criminal offence under the Landlord and Tenant Act by interfering with your right, enshrined in your lease, to the "quiet enjoyment" of your property

The purpose of appointing a PPC to manage a car park is to prevent others from parking in your space and clogging up visitors' spaces. It is not to harass genuine occupants parking properly in their own lease allotted spaces.

Whatever your MA may say, they are jointly and severally responsible for ensuring that your building is run smoothly, they cannot abrogate that responsibility to a squad of ex-clampers, who are only in it for the money.

You can play this any way you want. You can jump through their various hoops, you can appeal to the PPC and when that is rejected appeal to Popla, and you will win, until the next time, and you will have to do it all again, or you can fight back.

Leaflet all other residents, issue the MA and the PPC with "Cease and desist letters" and get heavy with the head lease holder, and/or the Residents' Association.

Others will tell you to go to Popla, I say avoid Popla, issuing this ticket was almost certainly a trespass, and they will now pester you until someone gets one of these tickets to court.

bod1467

I'm not sure waiting is a good idea, since the car is being replaced imminently. So get your husband to appeal the windscreen ticket but still as registered keeper, using the template in the NEWBIES sticky thread.

As the Deep says, it is YOUR SPACE and YOUR LAND (albeit leasehold). If the lease doesn't mention anything about permit parking then you could take the militant approach. But as the vehicle is being changed so soon then this may have its own risks - the company getting the car may get a NTK from UKCPM, pay it and then try to charge you.

Your choice.

Hot_Bring

OP - The Deep's advice while well meaning could end in you having to go to court. Now that is all well and good if you are a fighter and understand the complexities of the court system.

If on the other hand you want to rid yourself of the charge then do not avoid POPLA.

The Deep - come on, you might be prepared to go to court but you are making it sound simple. Most people want to know how to get rid of the charge - i.e. by appealing to the PPC and then POPLA.

It is irresponsible for you to make a post like that without highlighting the risks of ignoring POPLA.

The_Deep

OP - The Deep's advice while well meaning could end in you having to go to court. Now that is all well and good if you are a fighter and understand the complexities of the court system.

Whilst you may well need to be a fighter, you certainly do not need to understand the complexities of the court system.

My only acquaintanceship with the law is helping to draft International Treaties, yet I have been to the County Court on four occasions, and won each time.

I found the Judges to be kindly, tolerant and understanding of my lack of legal skill and I imagine that most of them now would bend over backwards to help an occupant fighting off a predatory ex-clamper who wants to be paid £100 for someone parking in their own parking space.

It is irresponsible for you to make a post like that without highlighting the risks of ignoring POPLA.

If you value your freedom you will ignore Popla and defy these clowns to take you to court, of all the tickets they issue, these are the most perfidious, and if there is any irresponsibility here, it is those who advocate the easy way out.

Most who come here come here because of some thing that they have done which they should not have, not paying, not displaying, overstaying, parking in disabled bays; occupants parked peacefully on their own property have done none of these things

Coupon-mad

Sparsholt wrote: »

I was parked in my parking bay ( I own the flat and allocated parking bay under leasehold NOT Freehold and had previously rented my property but moved into the flat on 27th Feb. previous Tenants gave me a parking permit to put in my car) and removed the permit to take up to my flat to leave it with a note to my daughter who would be flat sitting while I went on holiday. I then went back down to move my car and in that short period of time received a ticket (observed time of 5 minutes on the ticket). I was the driver but not the registered keeper of the car (my husband is the registered keeper but the car is going back to Fords on Thursday clearing the loan and we get a new car). I have been reading so many threads on the site and my 14 days to appeal as the driver will be up soon. Should I wait until they do the DVLA check and see if they write to my husband? We haven't changed our address yet with DVLA as changing car or will they write to Fords? Would I as the driver and Leasehold owner of flat and car park bay fair better than my husband who is not the owner of the flat and parking bay?


I did email the Management Company to request their help to waive the charge, they said they couldn't help and put me onto their contact at UK Car Park Management. I emailed her and she said she could not help as she is in sales and I would have to appeal as stated on the back of the notice. After reading through the many threads on this site I then emailed the Management Company who I believe have instructed this car park management firm for confirmation as to who owns the parking bay and for a copy of the contract with UK Car Park Management. He stated that Admirals Wharf Ltd are the Freeholders but no address and could not provide a copy of the contract. Interestingly I am swopping car parking bays with another flat owner and am still waiting for the parking permit.

Any help will be gratefully received.
Thank you

Go with bod1467's advice (use the appeal template from the NEWBIES sticky, now) unless you are the militant type as the Deep certainly has a valid point. If you search this forum for 'own space' you will find LOADS of threads like yours!

Also search for UKCPM because their signage is quirky and you'll need a strong POPLA appeal. I wrote one for someone only yesterday I think- so you could click my username and read my recent posts to find the POPLA appeal and understand the issues, and do a general 'search this forum' for UKCPM as a keyword.

Please don't rush your POPLA appeal stage. In fact if you could show us a link (remove the http:// first!) to a pic of the sign wording it will help us know whether they are alleging this is a contractual fee (which it isn't really but you must make sure POPLA see that!).

The_Deep

- so you could click my username and read my recent posts to find the POPLA appeal and understand the issues,

The only issues her are do you have a contract with the PPC, and did you trespass on their land.

Whether the daft figure on their invoice represents a genuine estimate of their losses should a breach have occurred, is neither here not there. By appealing to Popla you are acknowledging that their invoice may have a modicum of legitimacy, you are bound to comply with their Terms and Conditions, you are agreeing to display a permit in order to park in your own parking space.

I am all for getting those who do not respect the property rights of others for getting off on a technicality when the demand for money is a penalty, when a motorist parks and fails to pay in a P&D car park they are in fact stealing, but in your case you have done nothing wrong, why should you have to dance to their tune.

Popla is for those who break the rules, who try to avoid payment, who do not read the small print, who are too stupid to manage their time properly, it is not for you.

Sparsholt

Thanks for all the advice. I am sure the permit is not mention in the lease as the parking management was brought in some time later (years) but I will try and find my original paperwork for the flat purchase. The sign was not at the entrance to the flats but on the end wall of the parking area where I do not walk pass to enter the flats. It says:-
PRIVATE PROPERTY
Unauthorised parking or parking a vehicle in an area or space that has not been designated to you, may result in your vehicle receiving a parking charge notice.
ENFORCEMENT IN OPERATION 24HRS
Permits must be clearly displayed in windscreen at all times
TERMS OF PARKING WITHOUT PERMISSION
You do so at your own risk to property and personal injury and you are contractually agreeing to pay a parking charge fee.
THE FOLLOWING FEES APPLY
PARKING CHARGE NOTICE.... £100 Per Day
or the reduced sum of £60 if payment is made within 14 days

Sparsholt

rest of sign says:-
You will incur additional charges resulting from further action being taken against you if the fee remains unpaid
0845 463 5050
UK Car Park Management Ltd
(part of Parking Control Management)
ALL APPEALS IN WRITING TO
PO BOX 4760 WORTHING BN11 9NR


Also has BPA logo saying approved operator


Sorry new to Forums so don't know how to do photo links but I have taken photos and downloaded the photos they took. I am good at letter writing through so happy to fight my corner.