How do I know if there has been subsidence??

snowmaid

A horrible thought just came to me! How do I know if there has ever been subsidence in the house we are buying? :eek:

Just that we are looking for quotes for building insurance and one of the questions was if there had ever been subsidence or any of the neighbors.

The Homebuyer report said that there was no subsidence. Are the owners obligated to report if the house has been underpinned? How can I find out?

Taadaa

I think that they are under obligation to tell you. The survey would pick it up anyway. But I don't think they need to tell you if the neighbours have been underpinned.

I was told that houses that have metal 's' or 'x' shapes on the external walls have been underpinned, don't know how true that is though.

looby-loo_2

You may not know.
My house is 100 years old. It wasn't until I decorated after three years that I noticed a metre wide scar running down the wall in the dining room and bedroom above. This would account for the picture rail in the dining room running along and 3" above the door (which I though looked odd) instead of ending in line with the top of the door (the piece above the door was added) and in the bedroom the picture rail steps down 3" the two pieces being joined by a vertical piece. The whole of the front of the house must have dropped by 3" many years ago but there is no mention in deeds (should there be?) or any survey I have ever had done for mortgage, remortgage, etc. If it is this obvious and not mentioned then I don't know where it would be recorded

snowmaid

I am just wondering if, further down the line, subsidence suddenly develops, from an insurance point of view we should be in the clear because the mortgage valuation states there is no subsidence?

wecanhelpu

snowmaid wrote: »

A horrible thought just came to me! How do I know if there has ever been subsidence in the house we are buying? :eek:

Just that we are looking for quotes for building insurance and one of the questions was if there had ever been subsidence or any of the neighbors.

The Homebuyer report said that there was no subsidence. Are the owners obligated to report if the house has been underpinned? How can I find out?

There is no "registry" of susidence so there isn't anywhere you can look to find out if a house was subsiding.
However I think your surveyor would have picked up any signs of subsidence if there were any.

Underpinning is a big job costing anything up to 40k. If this had been carried out, it would probably have been paid for by insurance and would not have been entered into lightly. You can guarantee that a top job would have been done to prevent further damage.

Therefore, strangely, a house that has been underpinned is a better bet than one in a similar area that has not.

harryhound

snowmaid wrote: »

I am just wondering if, further down the line, subsidence suddenly develops, from an insurance point of view we should be in the clear because the mortgage valuation states there is no subsidence?

Let the buyer beware!

The "S" & "X" & "Frisbee" things are screwed to a similar plate on the other side of the building. The metal bar running between them has probably been heated up, the plate screwed up, then as the bar cools and shrinks it pulls the bulging wall back into place. Not necessarily a sign of subsidence, usually a heavy roof trying to do the splits and push over the walls.

Had to buy a house in Nottingham, in many places it was almost impossible to buy one that had not got a subsidence problem as the ground below was riddled with old coal mines.

I'm built on London Clay and the insurance policy insists that I don't grow any trees within about 50 feet of the house.

A brief visit from a surveyor is no substitute for understanding your own property. Insurance companies are trying to make a profit out of you, they are not charities.

Harry.

snowmaid

harryhound wrote: »

Let the buyer beware!

Insurance companies are trying to make a profit out of you, they are not charities.

Harry.

Errrmmm....I am not looking for charity?? :rolleyes: I am merely trying to ensure that I have 'dotted my I's and crossed my T's'.

Also, I was hoping for informed, experienced advice of what, if any, the tell tale signs are, whether the seller should disclose subsidence, if there is somewhere solicitors would pick this up etc etc. But thanks anyway.

wecanhelpu

harryhound wrote: »

I'm built on London Clay and the insurance policy insists that I don't grow any trees within about 50 feet of the house.

quote]

yes, i forgot to mention trees.

Part of the "top job" that i referred to in my last post would be to ensure any offending trees were taken care of.



(much to the dismay of environmentalists)

harryhound

Talk to the neighbours before you sign to buy; they may be awful people to have to live next door to and the rest of the street if you get a chance.

A local surveyor should know - I always try to survey the surveyor, after all I'm paying; some can get a bit shirty but most are interested in your interest.

In the autumn 2 or 3 years ago, we had brilliant autumn colours and all the roads cracking up because the clay was so dry; you could see the outlines of the trees in the concentric rings of cracks in the roads. What is the betting that with all this rain, "rotational slip" becomes a new topic of conversation next Christmas? If you have a subsoil with a layer of something impermeable under it, on a bit of a slope, especially if there are different layers in the subsoil; then the water builds up until a big chunk slips. Deep foundations, built because of the dryness problem can become the impermeable layer. Eventually the whole house goes tobogganing towards the nice view that is the reason you bought one on a hill side in the first place. It is called rotational slip because, just like a human on a banana skin, things like trees and houses tend to fall over backwards, when it happens.
The cliffs at Lyme Bay (Dorset), as featured in the French Lieutenants Woman film are a text book example.
If you are buying on a slope of more than 5 degrees, find out what is under the surface and how the house was constructed.

Harry

Jonbvn

From RICS: How can I tell if my house is subsiding?

If underpinning has been undertaken it may be difficult to spot. A good surveyor with local knowledge is your best bet.

The metal S & X-shapes you sometimes see are generally not related to subsidence. They are mostly used to tie-back walls, when an adjacent terraced house is demolished.

In the UK, trees are by far the biggest cause of of subsidence, due to drying shrinkage of clay soils.

Found this: One of the limited ports of call is the Subsidence Claims Advisory Bureau (01424 733727) which offers a free telephone advice service to the public – although its commercial arm, Bureau Insurance Service, charges a £250 fee to come out and visit your property.