Parking ticket from PCM

da_rule

Stop panicking about signage and markings on the ground. These points are rarely addressed by POPLA as long as no genuine pre-estimate of loss is mentioned. As has been said, all you have to do is assert that they haven't complied with the code of practice. It is then up to them to prove they have, don't do their job for them.

The idea is to make their response to POPLA so time consuming that they won't bother.

AoD

OP you have been given good advice. Please take it and stop worrying.

I have helped dozens of people beat PCM. Most of the time PCM cave in once a hard appeal goes in. If they do let it go to POPLA they give up once a good POPLA appeal goes in.

They have only stood up to one POPLA case from a neighbour, and PCM lost that on grace period.

The people here know what they are talking about. Please trust them.

nigelbb

dw10aau wrote: »

Sorry you've lost me

Just an observation that as Captain Barbossa says in 'Pirates of the Caribbean' "the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules" which is how the BPA Ltd seem to regard their CoP as no matter how many times the 'rules' are flouted by PPCs they never suffer any sanction.

Coupon-mad

dw10aau wrote: »

Ok thanks, but they take pictures as evidence and you can clearly see where i'm parked

Of course they do - it's a standard part of the 'impersonation of a real parking ticket' scam - but we still win 100% of POPLA appeals. PCM are easily beaten on the usual appeal points shown in the NEWBIES thread so relax! You don't even have your NTK yet do you?

dw10aau

Hey guys, so i just received my NTK, any help on how what to put in my challenge guys or how to structure it? thanks so much

AoD

Please remove the letter. It has personal data on it and details which ID you.

In the newbies sticky there is a template appeal. You should send that to PCM.

PCM may well cancel the charge on receipt of your appeal but if not they should issue you with a POPLA code. PCM are now members of the IPC but were in the BPA when your charge was issued so POPLA should still be available to you. My guess is PCM won't want the hassle.

If you do get a POPLA code come back for further assistance.

4consumerrights

dw10aau wrote: »

Hey guys, so i just received my NTK, any help on how what to put in my challenge guys or how to structure it? thanks so much

What is it state on the NtK about the appeals and who to appeal to?

@AOD - there has been some digging in the heels with the BPA and IPC regarding appeals and cross overs like this


@OP - why haven't you complained forcibly to the management company where you live regarding this and insist they instruct PCM to cancel this charge - you are after a bonefide resident.

these PPCs operating where people live are really PiXXing me Off.

check out tospigs thread and do a cease and desist letter to the PPC/managment company and answer if you are renting or leasehold.

if renting complain to your landlord and also the local council housing department -you are legally entitled to peaceful enjoyment of your property and if paying rent then the parking space comes with it.
Whoever parked in your space it has been known for PPCs to do this in order to entrap motorists - send them the invoice for payment

If leasehold - check out the terms of your lease and what the rights are.

dw10aau

So how is this for the reply?

Dear {company name of this member of ''PPC World''},

PCN number xxxxxxx
As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract:
The signs are inadequate, not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice and it was neither made clear that certain bays had to be used by certain residents, nor was the signage prominent enough that it must have been seen and understood. Regarding this car park in question, if you imagine it as a square with an entrance on one side, the only sign I can now see is on the opposite wall - so at the back of the car park in small font on an unreflective background. As a consequence, the requirements for forming a contract with a driver on arrival, such as a meeting of minds, agreement, and certainty of terms were not satisfied. The car belonged to a resident and was already displaying a valid permit and was parked in a residents' bay, so there was no consideration nor acceptance of any other terms.

The BPA Code of Practice requires clear signage at the entrance and that signage must be prominent:
18.1 In all cases, the driver’s use of your land will be governed by your terms and conditions, which the driver should be made aware of from the start. You must use signs to make it easy for them to find out what your terms and conditions are.''

The driver was not made aware of the risk of a PCN if parking in a different bay, on this occasion. Nor did they see any contractual information on any sign when entering the car park and therefore had no idea that any contract or restriction on bays might apply, above and beyond the display of a permit.

3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass

Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

Take formal note:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Yours,

dw10aau

@4consumerrights, I live in student accommodation and rent through a estate agents, I did ring them and they said they could not do anything about it. I don;t think they really care as i'll be gone in August then they'll have the next bunch in

Coupon-mad

Yep that's fine to send as your first appeal.