Planning Appeal Dismissed - what to do now????

saversfriend

Unfortunately the application to replace my wooden windows in my flat - and the windows of some of my neighbors in the same building (which are in disrepair despite attempts over the years to repair them) with UPVC ones has failed and the appeal has been dismissed. The windows proposed are the same sash design as the existing wooden ones.

I live in a block of 12 flats in a conservation area. Most of the windows have already had UPVC windows installed (without planning permission but more than 5 years ago). A few have old wooden windows which are in a state of disrepair and would cost thousands each to bring up to a reasonable standard. The UPVC windows look just like wood and are visually appealing as they are in a very good state of repair.

Our appeal failed because the inspector considered that although the windows are the same dimensions and appearance of the wooden ones, they are too "bright and shiny" compared to wooden windows. The inspector did not seem to understand that this is because they have not been painted recently. If they were painted, they would in fact be more bright and more shiny than the existing UPVC windows.

Secondly, the inspector did not accept our request to actually view a sample window which we had offered to provide. It would look something like this:
http://admin.rehau.dair.live.firehoop.com/assets/mediaitems/517_w500_s.jpg

We have done all we can to work cooperatively with the council but their view is that anything to do with UPVC is a bad thing and they too have been unwilling to view the proposed replacements.

On reflection the best thing would have been to replace the windows without applying for permission as the other neighbors have and probably these would not have been noticed. Hindsight is a great thing.

So in summary:
1) Our windows are no longer fit for purpose
2) Wooden replacements are too expensive (£8K each)
3) UPVC are affordable (£1K each)
4) The council have said "no".

Any suggestions as to the best course forward???

stebiz

theragingbullock wrote: »

Unfortunately the application to replace my wooden windows in my flat - and the windows of some of my neighbors in the same building (which are in disrepair despite attempts over the years to repair them) with UPVC ones has failed and the appeal has been dismissed. The windows proposed are the same sash design as the existing wooden ones.

I live in a block of 12 flats in a conservation area. Most of the windows have already had UPVC windows installed (without planning permission but more than 5 years ago). A few have old wooden windows which are in a state of disrepair and would cost thousands each to bring up to a reasonable standard. The UPVC windows look just like wood and are visually appealing as they are in a very good state of repair.

Our appeal failed because the inspector considered that although the windows are the same dimensions and appearance of the wooden ones, they are too "bright and shiny" compared to wooden windows. The inspector did not seem to understand that this is because they have not been painted recently. If they were painted, they would in fact be more bright and more shiny than the existing UPVC windows.

Secondly, the inspector did not accept our request to actually view a sample window which we had offered to provide. It would look something like this:
http://admin.rehau.dair.live.firehoop.com/assets/mediaitems/517_w500_s.jpg

We have done all we can to work cooperatively with the council but their view is that anything to do with UPVC is a bad thing and they too have been unwilling to view the proposed replacements.

On reflection the best thing would have been to replace the windows without applying for permission as the other neighbors have and probably these would not have been noticed. Hindsight is a great thing.

So in summary:
1) Our windows are no longer fit for purpose
2) Wooden replacements are too expensive (£8K each)
3) UPVC are affordable (£1K each)
4) The council have said "no".

Any suggestions as to the best course forward???

Could you let it lie for a bit then do what your neighbours have done.?

System

I would imagine that the appeal was heard by a committee? The best approach would have been to speak with a local councillor prior to the appeal, but guess that horse has bolted....
8k sounds ridiculous for a single window, I would get some more quotes there!
The other option is to speak with a planning consultant and do a new application but its much harder to get an approval for something with a previous refusal (especially one which was upheld at appeal)
Did you provide drawings of the Windows etc with the application, also why did you not withdraw it before refusal?

katejo

You say that your neighbours had the UPVC windows done more than 5 years ago. What difference does that make? Could the council still order them to change them back to wood sashes? My old flat had wooden sashes and I did get them restored but the price seems to have shot up.

MX5huggy

Thank goodness some councils are willing to maintain the integrity of our built environment. uPVC always looks awful.

DRP

MX5huggy wrote: »

Thank goodness some councils are willing to maintain the integrity of our built environment. uPVC always looks awful.

Personally i think the pic provided by the OP looks very smart.

uPVC certainly looks better than wooden frames in poor condition, with the added benefit of being better insulators and longer-lasting.

Flugelhorn

I was relieved to be able to change some of our ancient wooden windows for uPVC - the location eg 3 storeys up dormer window etc made maintenance very difficult. I don't mind keeping our original sash windows with single glass (shiver) as they are reasonably easy to get at to paint (ground floor)

Hope you get your uPVC - cost of new wooden ones can be crazy ..

saversfriend

The windows are very large - about 8 foot high, hence the price.

katejo

DRP wrote: »

Personally i think the pic provided by the OP looks very smart.

uPVC certainly looks better than wooden frames in poor condition, with the added benefit of being better insulators and longer-lasting.

I used to be very against UPVC windows and I do still miss my old sash windows but I do agree that windows as shown in the attached photo provided by the OP look much better than wooden sashes in poor condition. Also the insulation is much better. My old flat was often very cold.

jimbo_the_jetset

DRP wrote: »

Personally i think the pic provided by the OP looks very smart.

uPVC certainly looks better than wooden frames in poor condition, with the added benefit of being better insulators and longer-lasting.

I don't think you can argue that uPVC will be longer lasting. My wooden sash windows have been in since the house was built over 100 years ago. I doubt most uPVC would last 10-20!!

Doozergirl

We use these guys for listed/conservation windows now.

http://www.byngjoinery.co.uk

Gorgeous windows and not too expensive. Otherwise, you're looking at refurbing the existing.

The council can enforce against your neighbours. The likelyhood is low, but you buy in a conservation area, you should anticipate that you are going to have to do things by the book. Well done for trying.