Direct Debits Taken After Death

Olive123

Hi
I'm hoping someone can advise me about this. I am dealing with the estate of a deceased family member. I was unable to contact her bank to inform them of her death because I did not know where her account was held until after I obtained probate. In the meantime many direct debits had continued to be paid from her account.

I have contacted the companies to which the payments were made and some have refunded the money, but several others refuse to do so. Does anybody know whether it is legal for these companies to keep money that was taken from the bank account of someone who had died?

In all cases no goods or services were supplied for the money, they were payments for life insurance and for services that were not, and could not have been, used by anyone after the death of the original user.

Aquamania

Olive123 wrote: »

Hi
I'm hoping someone can advise me about this. I am dealing with the estate of a deceased family member. I was unable to contact her bank to inform them of her death because I did not know where her account was held until after I obtained probate. In the meantime many direct debits had continued to be paid from her account.

I have contacted the companies to which the payments were made and some have refunded the money, but several others refuse to do so. Does anybody know whether it is legal for these companies to keep money that was taken from the bank account of someone who had died?

In all cases no goods or services were supplied for the money, they were payments for life insurance and for services that were not, and could not have been, used by anyone after the death of the original user.

How did you obtain probate without knowing details of the deceased's estate? :huh:

As executor/administrator, you could be held personally liable for any losses to the estate if you have acted negligently.

ALI1973

I believe that both the company and the bank are only liable once the death has been properly notified, so would not be obligated to refund but may do so at their own discretion.

jonesMUFCforever

I agree a bank can only act when they have had sight of the death certificate. All transactions paid before then cannot be recalled.
Up to the beneficiaries to refund if a refund is due.

agrinnall

Would it not be possible to invoke the DD Guarantee to get the money refunded, and then let the companies decide whether they want to seek payment from the estate?

System

Olive123 wrote: »

Hi
I did not know where her account was held until after I obtained probate..

I don't understand that. If you didn't know where her account was held I don't see how probate could have told you.
Probate isn't a process for finding out about someone's assets - it's the other way round, you as executor need to KNOW about her assets before you can obtain probate.

If you couldn't find out where someone's account was held, or indeed whether there weren't other accounts you didn't know about, then the bank might have gone on paying DDs indefinitely.
If you did know where the account was held then a death certificate would have been enough to cause them to suspend further movements pending probate.

jonesMUFCforever

agrinnall wrote: »

Would it not be possible to invoke the DD Guarantee to get the money refunded, and then let the companies decide whether they want to seek payment from the estate?

As there has been no error on the part of the bank or the originator no.

Olive123

Hi
Thanks for your replies. They are helpful at least in so far as they let me know with more certainty where I stand on this issue. To clarify something that I send in the original post, I'll give a little more information.

If you inherit someone's estate you can apply for probate or letters of administration, in my case it was the latter because there was no will, but I called it probate on this forum because I've found that quite a few people only know that term. Possibly people on here would know both but I am new to this site so I can't judge that.

If you do not know the size of the estate you can make an estimate based on the information available to you when applying for probate / letters of administration, then correct this when you have the right information. I checked this with the government's helpline for people applying for probate / letters.

I had to obtain the letters of administration to prove my right to access the papers that then showed where I could find the assets and liabilities. I consulted a solicitor and the local police and was told that I could not access the papers until I could show that I had that right.

I had no legal means of knowing what / where the assets and liabilities were until I had been to court to obtain letters of administration, I could only have illegally gained access to the papers and risked prosecution.

I have tried looking at the direct debit guarantee and it doesn't seem to cover this case, but it seems to me that the companies that refuse to refund the money are acting outside of the spirit of that guarantee. The guarantee is intended to reassure people who use this method of payment that money which is taken from their bank account in error will be refunded. Those companies are profiting from the complicated circumstances that arose in this case. The money is being kept in spite of the fact that nothing was provided in return for it.

I had hoped that there would be something in English law about the contract between the person and the company concerned ending when that person died, or something about direct debits that I could not find information on.

spacey2012

It would depend on which types of contract, a service contract ends upon death and so does any right to collect upon it.

Mojisola

Olive123 wrote: »

If you inherit someone's estate you can apply for probate or letters of administration, in my case it was the latter because there was no will, but I called it probate on this forum because I've found that quite a few people only know that term.

I had to obtain the letters of administration to prove my right to access the papers that then showed where I could find the assets and liabilities. I consulted a solicitor and the local police and was told that I could not access the papers until I could show that I had that right.

If you weren't able to look at any of her papers, how did you know there wasn't a will?

Olive123

Hi Mojisola
She told me, and everyone else, that she was not making a will. She explained her reasons for this, but it would be a long story to relate here.