Sick leave and holidays

pinkshoes

So long as she's using up her days of annual leave, rather than taking a holiday whilst off sick, and at the same time retaining her annual leave, then it should be fine for her to take the holiday.

i.e. if she has 20 days of holiday entitlement, and is using 5 for THIS week long holiday, then her boss shouldn't have a problem with it. If she isnt' using her holiday entitlement and taking the holiday whilst off sick, then it's not fair on the other employees or the company, because they'll then have to pay her for 5 days holiday in the future too.

looby75

Pink shoes, she is taking the holiday out of her annual leave, it's been booked for over 6 months it's just unlucky that she has got ill at the same time she was due to go on holiday.

I told her about the suggestion that she get a note from the doc saying the break will be good for her health and she is going to talk to her GP when she goes back to see him next week.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

impecunious

I am a manager myself and have various dealings with annual leave/sickness on numerous occassons and as soon as I read your post I couldn't help but think that your mate is not only certainly allowed to go where she pleases during her sickness, but is also 'off sick' for her holidays too. This means, of course, that her holiday is cancelled and therefore these days cannot be deducted from her yearly entitlement.

Yes, my initial thoughts are right. Just checked it out on www.emplaw.co.uk which has a free section and it says:
For avoidance of doubt, it is worth confirming that sick leave does not count towards the paid holiday to which all workers are entitled under the Working Time Regulations 1998

I realise that your friend is probably in no mood for a fight right now, but when better, I would advise her to get some legal advice concerning the sacking comments made by her manager. Not only are the comments wrong, but they may well be unlawful.

looby75

impecunious thank you for the information and link in your post, when my mate is feeling up to it the link etc could be very useful to her.

Thanks again.

Jennifer_Jane

Does she have a union at work? If so, she could engage with them about this as well. But am sure the doc will give her the time off.

Hope so.

Jen

looby75

tbh I have no idea about the union again it might be worth mentioning to her. Thanks

CFC

impecunious wrote: »

I am a manager myself and have various dealings with annual leave/sickness on numerous occassons and as soon as I read your post I couldn't help but think that your mate is not only certainly allowed to go where she pleases during her sickness, but is also 'off sick' for her holidays too. This means, of course, that her holiday is cancelled and therefore these days cannot be deducted from her yearly entitlement.

Yes, my initial thoughts are right. Just checked it out on www.emplaw.co.uk which has a free section and it says:
For avoidance of doubt, it is worth confirming that sick leave does not count towards the paid holiday to which all workers are entitled under the Working Time Regulations 1998

Sick leave does not count towards paid holiday. However this is not the issue here. Nobody is trying to deduct sick leave from this lady's paid annual holiday. Company policy will dictate whether paid holiday leave can or cannot be taken during a period of employee sickness. As to the issue of whether the lady concerned can go away while she is sick, of course she can, if she has been signed off by a doctor and her doctor does not reccomend that she stays at home instead. It is therefore not actually anything to do with her employer. No employer can dictate that a sick person must stay 24/7 in their home.

However, she may continue to be paid SSP rather than her holiday pay and that will be according to the dictates of their company policy. For example, in my company sick does not override holiday unless specifically requested otherwise, so in this case the holiday leave will be payable but the holiday will be lost. Many companies operate with the opposite assumption. If this is the case, her annual leave is not lost but will be takeable again at some point in the future. Best advice would be to give the HR department a call and ask for clarification on the company policy.

I can tell your friend works in a supermarket - poor management and 'chiller talks' are alive and well by the sound of it!

looby75

CFC wrote: »

I can tell your friend works in a supermarket - poor management and 'chiller talks' are alive and well by the sound of it!

ABSOLUTELY!! A big part of how poorly she has become is due to the lack of compassion and flexibility of her manager. When her dad was ill there was a different manager and apart from the fact the whole store was much better organised and managed that it is now, she was also more willing to let my friend swap shifts etc as needed. My friend never lost a shift the whole time her dad was ill until the week before he died when she and her mum nursed him at home. But this new manager couldn't organise a booze up in a brewery, she favours the members of staff she has recruited since she took over and many of the long standing staff have left or are currently looking to leave. She's been there 6 months now and things seem to be going from bad to worse, everyone in the village comments on it!

Oops got on my soap box a bit there, thanks for the advice and info it's all very reassuring to know and useful for if my friend needs to fight her corner.

Boomdocker

Has your friend actually spoken to the HR manager? I work in HR (in a supermarket for my sins) and in the example you give we would accept the cert, pay sick if applicable for the duration and when resumed reallocate the holiday hours that should have been taken during the time of absence.If a colleague had no sick pay entitlement they may request to still have their holiday.If she has only spoken to her department/section manager then you need to advise her to speak to HR before you start talking about solicitors and lawyers. I would hope that no HR manager would support those managers comments.

looby75

AFAIK my mate hasn't spoken to HR, she really wasn't in a fit state to talk to anyone after she had spoken to her manager on Tuesday. She has no intention of going to see a solicitor or anything at this point, all she wants is time for the tablets the doc has given her to kick in and to be able to have her holiday as arranged before she even knew her mum was ill. When I saw her yesterday she was a bit dazed by it all, and is in favour of getting a note from her doc saying she needs to go on holiday.

I think she is planning to contact HR if that doesn't settle the manager down.