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Sutton Parking Ticket - Help
davross
Posts: 288 Forumite
Hi everyone,
My wife was issued a parking ticket which I believe was unfair and I would appreciate any advice. This is the situation so far....
On the evening of 7th March my wife was visiting a friend and parked (my car) with 2 wheels on the pavement in what she thought was a parking bay. When she returned there was a PCN on the windscreen. There are marked parking bays (partly on the pavement) in front and behind the place she had parked and also what appeared to be a continuation of these lines where she had parked although these are quite faint. There are no yellow lines or signs saying that parking is prohibited. The parking attendant had also recorded the make/model of my vehicle incorrectly so obviously wasn't paying much attention.
We appealed via the online system and just got a copied and pasted generic response that ignored the issues we had raised. As we felt our appeal had not been dealt with properly we contacted Sutton Council and were advised to reply back to the appeal rejection email clearly stating our case. We replied with the following:-
I feel that you have not adequately addressed the points I made in my original appeal so I have been in contact with my local MP and also the MP for Sutton. The office for the MP for Sutton has confirmed that they will investigate the issue regarding the misleading markings and have advised me to pursue the issue of my appeal through Sutton Council who have in turn advised me to contact you directly.
Please see below for the points that you have not addressed in your reply to my appeal:-
1) There are lines visible on the pavement where my car was parked showing that this is a parking bay. Although these are quite faint they are visible, even in low light so it is a reasonable assumption that this is a parking bay.
2) There are no yellow lines or signs saying that parking is prohibited. As parking with 2 wheels on the pavement is allowed immediately in front and behind the space in which my vehicle was parked and there are visible white lines in the space (on the pavement) I feel it is unreasonable to expect anyone to assume that it is prohibited to park here without any signage or yellow lines.
3) It is apparent that the road marking is misleading and often causes confusion. When I returned to take photographs of the area for evidence, another vehicle was parked in the same space has also been issued a parking ticket and a local resident noticed that I was taking photographs and told me that he has also been unfairly issued a parking ticket for parking in the same space. If so many people are being issued tickets for parking in this space surely you can see that the markings are misleading and need to be addressed? Please provide me with the number of Penalty Charge Notices issued to vehicles for parking in this space in the last 6 months.
4) Photographs. The photographs taken by your attendant are dark and unclear and I do not see how it was possible to deal with my appeal fairly based on these. I advised that I had taken photographs of the space and could provide them upon request. Unfortunately the online appeal system does not allow these to be attached directly or I would have done so. Surely to deal with the appeal fairly I should have been given the opportunity to provide these photographs so that all of the evidence could be considered before making a decision.
I have attached a photograph that shows the parking bay markings are clearly visible. I hope that now you can see how misleading the markings are you will do the right thing and reconsider the appeal outcome.
I was advised by Sutton Council that you would either deal with this issue before the 14 day reduced fine deadline or extend this deadline until you have been able to reconsider the appeal. Please can you advise if this is the case?
We received the following reply today:-
Thank you for writing to us.
This matter has been considered again, and whilst your comments have been noted, my position remains that stated in my earlier letter and the Penalty Charge Notice remains enforced.
In response to your comments I have visited the location and whilst there was a bay at this location previously, it has been completely removed. Whilst there are some marks remaining from the burning off process there is no sign of any white thermoplastic remaining. It is my view that there is a clear difference between the white bays marked elsewhere in Downs Road and this location.
In response to your question regarding the number of penalties issued at this location, I can confirm that we have issued 24 penalties for this offence in the last 6 months.
I will allow payment of the penalty at the discounted rate for a further 10 days from the date of this letter after which the penalty shall progress to the full charge, regardless of any further correspondence.
Surely if 24 other people have been issued tickets for parking in the same space in the last 6 months the council should realise that the marking is misleading and do something about it?
Here is a photo of the space. The car in the photo is not ours as when we returned the following morning to take photos another car was parked in the same space and has also been issued a ticket. I think that although the markings are faint it looks like they are a continuation of the parking bay so the ticket is unfair, especially considering the number of other people that have been caught out. Any opinions/advice on what we should do now would be very welcome.
My wife was issued a parking ticket which I believe was unfair and I would appreciate any advice. This is the situation so far....
On the evening of 7th March my wife was visiting a friend and parked (my car) with 2 wheels on the pavement in what she thought was a parking bay. When she returned there was a PCN on the windscreen. There are marked parking bays (partly on the pavement) in front and behind the place she had parked and also what appeared to be a continuation of these lines where she had parked although these are quite faint. There are no yellow lines or signs saying that parking is prohibited. The parking attendant had also recorded the make/model of my vehicle incorrectly so obviously wasn't paying much attention.
We appealed via the online system and just got a copied and pasted generic response that ignored the issues we had raised. As we felt our appeal had not been dealt with properly we contacted Sutton Council and were advised to reply back to the appeal rejection email clearly stating our case. We replied with the following:-
I feel that you have not adequately addressed the points I made in my original appeal so I have been in contact with my local MP and also the MP for Sutton. The office for the MP for Sutton has confirmed that they will investigate the issue regarding the misleading markings and have advised me to pursue the issue of my appeal through Sutton Council who have in turn advised me to contact you directly.
Please see below for the points that you have not addressed in your reply to my appeal:-
1) There are lines visible on the pavement where my car was parked showing that this is a parking bay. Although these are quite faint they are visible, even in low light so it is a reasonable assumption that this is a parking bay.
2) There are no yellow lines or signs saying that parking is prohibited. As parking with 2 wheels on the pavement is allowed immediately in front and behind the space in which my vehicle was parked and there are visible white lines in the space (on the pavement) I feel it is unreasonable to expect anyone to assume that it is prohibited to park here without any signage or yellow lines.
3) It is apparent that the road marking is misleading and often causes confusion. When I returned to take photographs of the area for evidence, another vehicle was parked in the same space has also been issued a parking ticket and a local resident noticed that I was taking photographs and told me that he has also been unfairly issued a parking ticket for parking in the same space. If so many people are being issued tickets for parking in this space surely you can see that the markings are misleading and need to be addressed? Please provide me with the number of Penalty Charge Notices issued to vehicles for parking in this space in the last 6 months.
4) Photographs. The photographs taken by your attendant are dark and unclear and I do not see how it was possible to deal with my appeal fairly based on these. I advised that I had taken photographs of the space and could provide them upon request. Unfortunately the online appeal system does not allow these to be attached directly or I would have done so. Surely to deal with the appeal fairly I should have been given the opportunity to provide these photographs so that all of the evidence could be considered before making a decision.
I have attached a photograph that shows the parking bay markings are clearly visible. I hope that now you can see how misleading the markings are you will do the right thing and reconsider the appeal outcome.
I was advised by Sutton Council that you would either deal with this issue before the 14 day reduced fine deadline or extend this deadline until you have been able to reconsider the appeal. Please can you advise if this is the case?
We received the following reply today:-
Thank you for writing to us.
This matter has been considered again, and whilst your comments have been noted, my position remains that stated in my earlier letter and the Penalty Charge Notice remains enforced.
In response to your comments I have visited the location and whilst there was a bay at this location previously, it has been completely removed. Whilst there are some marks remaining from the burning off process there is no sign of any white thermoplastic remaining. It is my view that there is a clear difference between the white bays marked elsewhere in Downs Road and this location.
In response to your question regarding the number of penalties issued at this location, I can confirm that we have issued 24 penalties for this offence in the last 6 months.
I will allow payment of the penalty at the discounted rate for a further 10 days from the date of this letter after which the penalty shall progress to the full charge, regardless of any further correspondence.
Surely if 24 other people have been issued tickets for parking in the same space in the last 6 months the council should realise that the marking is misleading and do something about it?
Here is a photo of the space. The car in the photo is not ours as when we returned the following morning to take photos another car was parked in the same space and has also been issued a ticket. I think that although the markings are faint it looks like they are a continuation of the parking bay so the ticket is unfair, especially considering the number of other people that have been caught out. Any opinions/advice on what we should do now would be very welcome.
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Comments
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As this is a council ticket and seeing as you have already appealed I would suggest heading over to the PePiPoo forum. They deal with council tickets on a more regular basis. You will need to upload the image above as well as both sides of the parking ticket (obviously obscuring your details), as well as the text of the appeal you sent and the reply you received.0
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Have you received the Notice to Owner yet ?
There is a set down procedure and until you have the notice to owner you can not make a formal appeal.
expect the formal appeal to be rejected and to go to adjudication.
As said over to Peippoo.
You must not get this wrong, you can not appeal to good natures as they do not have any.Be happy...;)0 -
As this is a council ticket and seeing as you have already appealed I would suggest heading over to the PePiPoo forum. They deal with council tickets on a more regular basis. You will need to upload the image above as well as both sides of the parking ticket (obviously obscuring your details), as well as the text of the appeal you sent and the reply you received.
Ok, thanks. I dont have the parking ticket with me but will put post this on PePiPoo when I get home this evening.0 -
spacey2012 wrote: »Have you received the Notice to Owner yet ?
There is a set down procedure and until you have the notice to owner you can not make a formal appeal.
expect the formal appeal to be rejected and to go to adjudication.
As said over to Peippoo.
You must not get this wrong, you can not appeal to good natures as they do not have any.
I don't have a Notice to Owner yet.
I would be interested to hear if you think the markings are misleading.0 -
Yes I do, very, the Adjudicate may also.
However the process is difficult and you must not miss any deadlines, even if they ignore you.Be happy...;)0
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