Hospital Parking ticket

Riduna

Dear All,

I have read and re-read your forum and am still feeling stuck.

In December of last year I drove myself to a local hospital with a suspected damaged spleen after a fall. It was night and with a ground frost (they were gritting near the hospital at the time of my arrival). I looked for a suitable parking in a barrier controlled car park and saw what I saw was a suitable slot (no obvious disabled signage in the poorly lit car park).

A&E referred me up to a ward for an over night stay which required me to be there for almost 24 hours before I was discharged.

I payed my parking voucher but found a ticket on the car window on my return from UKPC for parking in a disabled bay.

There was no upright parking signs to say that this was a disabled spot but a very faded wheelchair sign painted on the ground under the car which I had failed to see at night with groundfrost and poor lighting. There was no other obvious colour change or signage to the bay.

I felt too ill to fight this at the time but I am now being threatened with court unless I pay a reduced amount (ha) of £112 by Debt Recovery PLus Ltd.

Can this be fought?
Please help....

Riduna

From the hospital policy...
Public Parking will be policed by ETDE using the Penalty Charge Notice System:

• Any vehicle displaying a ticket which has expired, been defaced, tampered

with or details that are not clearly visible

• Any vehicle in a Pay and Display car park for which the driver has not

purchased or fails to display a valid parking ticket

• Any vehicle causing an obstruction or taking up more than one parking space

• Any vehicle parked on grassed areas or pavements

• Motorcycles or cycles left in a position considered as unsafe

• Any vehicle parked on red or yellow lines

• Over stay in the 10 minute drop off zones

The Penalty Charge Notice will be levied at £80. Staff and members of the public will be required to contact the operator UK Parking Control (UKPC) on their Customer

Services number: 0870 174 0074 to pay the fee. Fines which are paid within 14 days receive a 50% discount i.e. a fee of £40.

Fines which are not paid nor communication received within 56 days will be referred to an independent debt recovery agency where legal action may result; additional charges
will be incurred if this action becomes necessary.

Half_way

Dont worry, dont panic.
what youve posted above about penalties is very good, and basically means the parking company and the hospital haven't got a leg to stand on.
Ive just tried to google ETDE parking but nothing shows ( other than a load of french websites)
what hospital was this?
one option is that you could get in touch with a patients association at the hospital (PALS ?)
and you could also try getting in touch with thew hospital demanding that they call of their agents and cease pursuing this unlawful penalty charge notice.

in short neither the hospital or the parking company will have any authority to issue penalties, save a screenshot of the website or obtain a hard copy of the information about penalites, it may be of use.

I will post more later (if required)

Riduna

The hospital is West Middlesex and as far as I can see from their parking policy they have messed up on the disabled places fines. I can send you a link to their policy if it helps. I also do not recall any lower level parking signs in these bays as seems to be required by the BPA ?

Any help is really great as this is causing me loads of stress that i should have dealt with this before now...

Half_way

they have messed up on the disabled places fines

They have messed up by issuing fines, or believing that they can.

this is probably covered in the newbies/sticky thread, but here's some info to relieve any stress/anxiety

Private companies, or individuals do not have the authority to issue fines or penalties ( and this includes hospitals /colleges etc etc) only statutory authorities can do this such as local councils/police etc and in some circumstances railway companies where by-laws may apply.
However private companies and individuals can charge people for trespass as long as the sum demanded will compensate them for any damage/loss that occurs as a result of the tresspass, this is known as a genuine pre estimate of loss, commonly abbreviated to GPEOL
The question you need to ask yourself is this:
By parking in a badly signed/marked disabled space without displaying a blue badge ( or whatever) did you cause a loss to the car parking company or the hospital that is equal to the amount they are demanding?
Or is the sum demanded clearly a penalty designed to act as a deterrent?
If its a penalty, or a fine then they haven't got a hope in hell.
If they go down the loss route then this can only be a genuine pre estimate of loss caused by your parking they can not take things such as car park/sign maintenance, patrol officer uniform cost , office/stationary costs, tea bags or even toothbrushes for the solicitor should they be daft enough to try court, but it wont come to that.

Online information - how to find us by car
http://www.west-middlesex-hospital.nhs.uk/patients-and-visitors/how-to-find-us/by-car/

from that page

Penalty charge notice

In December 2012 we introduced a penalty charge notice (PCN) system in our public car parks. This replaces the previous clamping system, which is now illegal, as a deterrent and enforcement system for car parking breaches. More information can be found in our Travel Plan.

And from that travel plan

15. Penalty Charge Notice & Appeals


Car parks are managed and policed through the PFI service provider [ETDE] for both public and staff parking. Penalty Charge Notices (PCN) are used as a deterrent and final control measure. Details of situations that will incur an immediate Penalty Charge Notice are shown at Appendix 1.

Penalty Charge Notice System


The staff car parks are policed by ETDE. The Trust implements a Penalty Charge Notice system across its staff car parks as a deterrent and final control measure where drivers fail to observe the Travel Plan terms and conditions. Vehicles will be issued with a PCN in the following circumstances:


A. Staff Parking:

• Parked in staff car park not displaying a valid Trust permit
• Parked in disabled bay not displaying a valid disabled badge
• Parked in Essential User bay without valid Essential User permit
• Parked in ambulance bay
• Parked in hatched area
• Parked in emergency or fire access route/bay
• Parked on red or yellow lines
• Any vehicle parked on grassed areas or pavements
• Vehicle with revoked permit

1. Public Parking will be policed by ETDE using the Penalty Charge Notice System:

• Any vehicle displaying a ticket which has expired, been defaced, tampered

with or details that are not clearly visible

• Any vehicle in a Pay and Display car park for which the driver has not

purchased or fails to display a valid parking ticket

• Any vehicle causing an obstruction or taking up more than one parking space
• Any vehicle parked on grassed areas or pavements
• Motorcycles or cycles left in a position considered as unsafe
• Any vehicle parked on red or yellow lines

• Over stay in the 10 minute drop off zones

The Penalty Charge Notice will be levied at £80. Staff and members of the public will be required to contact the operator UK Parking Control (UKPC) on their Customer Services number: 0870 174 0074 to pay the fee. Fines which are paid within 14 days receive a 50% discount i.e. a fee of £40.


Fines which are not paid nor communication received within 56 days will be referred to an independent debt recovery agency where legal action may result; additional charges will be incurred if this action becomes necessary.

So what do you do now?
If youve had a letter from Debt recovery something or other read this :http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/debt-collectors/
this is the letter template for a debt recovery company - if writing anything do not sign your name print it

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][My address][/FONT]






[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][Today’s date][/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Your reference: [Reference from the debt collection letter][/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Dear Sir / Madam,[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I received your letter dated [Date from their letter][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The debt is denied and I will not make any payment in the absence of a county court judgement. Please refer the matter back to your client.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Please do not contact me again. Any further correspondence from you will be considered harassment and will be reported to the appropriate authority.[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yours faithfully,[/FONT]






[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][Your name][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]you should also get in touch with the PALS at the hospital here http://www.west-middlesex-hospital.nhs.uk/patients-and-visitors/information-and-advice/patient-advice-and-liaison-service-pals/[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]with a complaint.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] more later..(if required)
[/FONT]

Coupon-mad

I presume you've seen the sticky threads at the top of the forum?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4896178

You need to click on 'Successful complaints about PPCs, how to get them cancelled' and read about other similar tickets cancelled and how PALS can help you with this issue. Anyway UKPC are not litigious and just get debt collector junk mail sent to bother you for a few months do this is no biggie. But I would still read up on how others complained, and emulate it.

Stroma

Another thing it appears you haven't had a Notice to Keeper from UKPC, it's gone straight from ticket on the car to debt collectors chasing you. So you should complain to the bpa and dvla if that is so. Just copy your letter and attach it to the email, the addresses are in the sticky thread by coupon mad. Don't admit to being the driver, just use registered keeper instead

Riduna

Half_way wrote: »

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]you should also get in touch with the PALS at the hospital here...
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]with a complaint.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] more later..(if required)
[/FONT]

Are these guys part of the hospital and should I only complain by letter without giving my name as a driver or are they generally more sympathetic to patient plights?

Trying not to worry but feeling stressed, thanks for advice and help

bazster

PALS is the Patient Advice and Liaison Service. It is part of the hospital and it is there to help you.

You should be able to drop in to see someone there. Take with you the junk that you have been sent by UKPC and DR+, and explain the circumstances.

Don't worry about revealing yourself as the driver, UKPC has about as much bite as a puppy dog and they never take unpaid tickets further than a few threatening letters.

Riduna

Dear Sir/Madam,

I have been contacted as the registered keeper of the vehicle xxxx with regards to a ticket issued on the xx/12/2013 by UKPC (reference xxxxx).

In December of last year the driver came to hospital with a suspected damaged spleen after a fall. It was night and with a ground frost (they were gritting near the hospital at the time of the arrival). The driver looked for a suitable parking in a barrier controlled car park and saw what appeared to be a suitable slot (no obvious disabled signage in the poorly lit car park).

A&E referred the patient up to a ward for an overnight stay which required the driver to be there for almost 24 hours before discharge.

The driver paid the parking voucher but found a ticket on the car window on return from UKPC for parking in a disabled bay.

There was no upright parking signs to say that this was a disabled spot but a very faded wheelchair sign painted on the ground under the car which was not visible at night with ground frost and poor lighting. There was no other obvious colour change or signage to the bay including lowered disabled signs.

As the registered keeper of the vehicle I am now being threatened with court unless I pay Debt Recovery PLus Ltd.

This has left me both stressed and is affecting my concentration. I have reason to believe that this charge is unfair and would like to contest it most strenuously.

Is there any further redress that I could have with the landowner i.e. the hospital?

Yours sincerely

bazster

It's the Patient Advice and Liaison Service, they are there to help patients not vehicle registered keepers! So if I were you I'd use "I" and "me", not "the keeper". They are in any case under an obligation of patient confidentiality so they can't go blabbing to UKPC about what you've said to them, although they hopefully can get the ticket cancelled.

If I were you I'd also scratch your last "Is there any further redress etc." and replace it with a simple, polite request that they get the ticket cancelled.