Health Checks at School

Person_one

Buellguy wrote: »

And there we have it, in a nutshell, a lot of the time things like this AREN'T explained to parents, just a form from school saying 'do you consent yes/no' so no real surprise when parents go 'no'

This is just an example from one area, the first one I clicked on, but I think it does a pretty good job of explaining, don't you?

http://www.cornwallhealthyschools.org/documents/NHS_Child_Health_Booklet_Update_Proof_6.pdf

jellyhead

wotsit78 wrote: »

My daughter is in reception and we had a letter before christmas asking for permission to have her weighed (nothing about sight or hearing tests).
I must admit I never filled it in, I understand the good thinking behind it, but I still think it's wrong to stick a 4/5 year old on a scale and then decide if they have a problem!

I was concerned because my son's weight is off the chart, but then so is his height. But they don't tell the child what they weigh, and they certainly don't tell them their BMI, or whether their weight is in proportion to their height.

It all comes to the parent in a letter - the child is not made to feel awkward at all.

I wasn't happy about the whole idea because I knew that my child would be identified as being too heavy, and it's annoying that his body type means he will always be singled out rather than a child who actually leads an unhealthy lifestyle by eating crisps and chocolate in school every day, being driven to school, not doing any exercise outside of school, etc.

But really, it's fine. My child wasn't upset or made to feel 'fat'. Likewise, my other child who was weighed in year 6 wasn't made to feel thin, despite being very underweight.

The school nurse won't make personal comments.

CH27

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

Wanted to check if it was selective deafness - where they can hear words like "swimming" and "ice cream" but "bathtime" completely misses their ears?

:rotfl:
I used to worry about my son & then I realised he was just like his dad. Only listens to what suits him.

kbr

Well this thread has been an interesting read, especially the one where I was accused of not being 'professional'. Oh and impersonating a nurse because my profile, which I haven't updated in the past 5 years, still says I am a stay at home mum! Well actually I have been a school nurse for the past 3 years so I am well aware of my job role thank you very much.
Also on the issue of consent - parents are informed and advised in the letter what will take place at the health check.....there is a letter offering parents the chance to opt out and we do not chase these parents any further if they do opt out - their choice. This is, of course, unless we are aware that the children are currently already subject to safeguarding concerns.
This is called implied consent and one which is perfectly legal - so I'm afraid the police would have very little interest in this case. That along with the fact that we never actually touch the children and neither are they seen alone with the nurse as we visit the school in pairs and the children always come along in little groups.
We do not diagnose anything at these sessions but simply refer onto the appropriate professional if we see anything of concern e.g a squint and also after discussion with parents.
I'm sorry some people seem to not have had a very good experience with their own school nurses however I do feel that this thread has gone completely in the wrong direction.

surreysaver

IrishRose12 wrote: »

Not paranoia, just something that is kept an eye on. As I said, I work in a school also, and this is one thing we would keep an eye on.

I'm a parent myself and personally don't see why you wouldn't want your child to have a health check To Be Honest.

And a school nurse overstepping the mark and doing things without parental consent is something I would be keeping an eye on. They have certain standards they should be adhering to, and obtaining consent is one of them.

I wouldn't want my child not to have a health check. But only with proper parental consent.

surreysaver

Person_one wrote: »

This is just an example from one area, the first one I clicked on, but I think it does a pretty good job of explaining, don't you?

http://www.cornwallhealthyschools.org/documents/NHS_Child_Health_Booklet_Update_Proof_6.pdf

That leaflet is very dangerous. 'If you do not return this form, we will read it as consent given.' How do they know the form has not gone missing? Or Forgotten about? Or deliberately been misplaced by a teacher or healthcare professional?

Not acceptable. And illegal.

surreysaver

kbr wrote: »

Well this thread has been an interesting read, especially the one where I was accused of not being 'professional'. Oh and impersonating a nurse because my profile, which I haven't updated in the past 5 years, still says I am a stay at home mum! Well actually I have been a school nurse for the past 3 years so I am well aware of my job role thank you very much.

Well, as something didn't add up, I had to treat it suspiciously. Bit like parents not consenting to a health check you would treat suspiciously.

kbr wrote: »

Also on the issue of consent - parents are informed and advised in the letter what will take place at the health check.....there is a letter offering parents the chance to opt out and we do not chase these parents any further if they do opt out - their choice. This is, of course, unless we are aware that the children are currently already subject to safeguarding concerns.
This is called implied consent and one which is perfectly legal - so I'm afraid the police would have very little interest in this case.

Unless a parent signs to say they've received the leaflet, you have no evidence that they have received a choice. And you need to check up on the definition of implied consent. Consent is implied by someone making a positive action - such as holding out an arm to have a blood pressure taken. The lack of an action - such as not objecting to something - does NOT imply consent. Sometimes it might be referred to presumed consent - but then only if a specific law allows it to, and extensive public consultation has taken place. Look at the current issues over care.data - this is on a presumed consent basis, and look at the uproar over it. Unless a law has been passed with nobody noticing, what you are doing is illegal.

kbr wrote: »

That along with the fact that we never actually touch the children and neither are they seen alone with the nurse as we visit the school in pairs and the children always come along in little groups. We do not diagnose anything at these sessions but simply refer onto the appropriate professional if we see anything of concern e.g a squint and also after discussion with parents. I'm sorry some people seem to not have had a very good experience with their own school nurses however I do feel that this thread has gone completely in the wrong direction.

Doesn't matter whether you touch them or not - you still need parental consent. You are taking measurements, doing tests, and making records. You need consent for this. The only time you can do it without consent is when a parent has not given consent, you have chased them up, they have objected, you have concerns about the child and then you have got a court order to do it. Although I wouldn't wish for you to be struck off if you did this to my child, if you cannot see my argument here, you are not fit to be a nurse.

Person_one

The NMC can be tough, but I'm fairly confident they wouldn't strike off a school nurse for weighing a child when their parent hadn't returned the opt out form!

You do realise you sound completely hysterical, don't you?

surreysaver

Person_one wrote: »

The NMC can be tough, but I'm fairly confident they wouldn't strike off a school nurse for weighing a child when their parent hadn't returned the opt out form!

You do realise you sound completely hysterical, don't you?

Where would you draw the line, then? Where does the need for consent begin and end? Who has authority over the child - the school nurse or the parent?

The only time I would accept that there is no need for consent is when there is an immediate danger to life or limb, and time is of the essence. Or a court order has been obtained.

It is a matter of courtesy. If the school nurse wishes to perform checks, they ask. They do not assume or imply. And the schools should not be allowing this practice to take place when parents have placed their trust in the school. It is an abuse of trust by the school and the school nurses.

And you think I sound hysterical - I think if people cannot see this, then the need to not seek proper consent will slowly creep to other situations. As it is currently doing. It needs nipping in the bud.

GwylimT

At a lot of school is it is an opt out service, or you give your consent in August/September when signing the relevant forms for your child.

In our area pupils aren't weighed, we do however opt out of the sight test and dental check up as ours see the dentist every 6 months and they have an eye test every two years. Really, I would be happier if children had to have these checks at school unless parents can show they are attending the dentist and opticians on a fairly regular basis.