Hypothetical Accident, who would be to blame

rach_k

Were the cars over on the left fully stopped or just slowing down to allow the ambulance to overtake? If they were stopped, I'd say the Punto pulled out into the traffic so it would be his fault, whatever speed the BMW was going. If the cars were only slowing down and the BMW was effectively over-taking them, whatever speed the Punto was going I'd say it was the BMW's fault for dangerous overtaking as you would expect a still-moving Punto to continue going straight on and return to the normal driving position.

aileth

Probably be 50/50, although the BMW is a massive !!!!!! for effectively attempting to queue jump by attaching itself to the back of an ambulance.

Stoke

rach_k wrote: »

Were the cars over on the left fully stopped or just slowing down to allow the ambulance to overtake? If they were stopped, I'd say the Punto pulled out into the traffic so it would be his fault, whatever speed the BMW was going. If the cars were only slowing down and the BMW was effectively over-taking them, whatever speed the Punto was going I'd say it was the BMW's fault for dangerous overtaking as you would expect a still-moving Punto to continue going straight on and return to the normal driving position.

The cars had pulled over to specifically allow the ambulance past, including the car further ahead which was directly at the entrance to the roundabout. I don't think we'd fully stopped as such. We were probably creeping as you normally just slow down and pull in to the left to allow the ambulance past.

aileth wrote: »

Probably be 50/50, although the BMW is a massive !!!!!! for effectively attempting to queue jump by attaching itself to the back of an ambulance.

Well yes there is that. May have been related to the person in the ambulance... or perhaps just suffering posh car syndrome.

GoldenShadow

I'm pretty sure when another vehicle is going fast like that you have to be able to prove they were going fast ie. you didn't see them because of that. I had a mini roundabout accident go against me because unless I could prove the third party was speeding they were assuming I didn't look, despite the fact I disputed this. I imagine it would well have gone down as entirely punto's fault because how can they prove the X5 wasn't driving at a nice normal pace (unless witnesses spoke up), but in reality I'd say it was probably 70% Punto's fault 30% X5's fault. definitely both to blame to some degree.

RumRat

As he was driving a BMW X5 he is at fault because he is a typical X5 owner and thinks that the rules of the road apply to all except him.:)

Stoke

GoldenShadow wrote: »

I'm pretty sure when another vehicle is going fast like that you have to be able to prove they were going fast ie. you didn't see them because of that. I had a mini roundabout accident go against me because unless I could prove the third party was speeding they were assuming I didn't look, despite the fact I disputed this. I imagine it would well have gone down as entirely punto's fault because how can they prove the X5 wasn't driving at a nice normal pace (unless witnesses spoke up), but in reality I'd say it was probably 70% Punto's fault 30% X5's fault. definitely both to blame to some degree.

As I said, despite the fact that the BMW was literally using the path of the ambulance to gain an advantage. Crazy to think that it might be legally possible to do this, or is it only legally possible if you're driving a BMW or Audi ?

Anyway, my artistic paint impression in the style of a 5 year old:





Images aren't really drawn to scale and shouldn't be taken as totally accurate but that is roughly how it went down.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

Stoke wrote: »

As I said, despite the fact that the BMW was literally using the path of the ambulance to gain an advantage. Crazy to think that it might be legally possible to do this, or is it only legally possible if you're driving a BMW or Audi ?

As I mentioned, the X5 is not driving lawfully in the way you described, specifically he was driving without due consideration to other road users. He would get short shrift from the police if he made a complaint.

Perhaps the Punto was driving without due care and attention, but I would see the X5 as the main problem.

scaredofdebt

So, X5 is tailgating the Ambulance, probably speeding and overtaking traffic that is still moving, whilst partially on the wrong side of the road?

However, if there were a collision without witnesses it could go either way, probably 50/50

dacouch

InsideInsurance wrote: »

It is most likely a split liability situation, the exact split would require leg work to identify relevant case law as the cases that all come to mind is where the other vehicle is pulling out to turn right into a side road or to overtake themselves rather than just returning to the normal driving position on the carriageway

You would also need to hear both version of events if there were no independant witnesses. Wouldnt be too surprised if the X5 said that he was progressing past parked cars when one decided to pull out without indicating or looking

This hypothetical accident would be the type that would have plenty of independent witnesses supporting the Fiat.

I certainly would pass my details to the Fiat driver

Stoke

Yes, witnesses. Me, the person behind me. The person in front possibly. The only reason there wasn't an accident was nobody coming in the opposite direction.