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APCOA Birmingham airport fine
bombhead71
Posts: 8 Forumite
Hi, hope someone can help, as many others the first letter i get is from DRP, i have tried to follow the advise from this forum and have drafted a letter to APCOA.
is there any chance someone could look over it for me to make shaw its ok to send, thanx for any help . letter as follows.
Dear APCOA Parking (UK) LTD (Date Sent 17/03/2014)
PCN number xxxxxxxxxxxx
As the registered keeper and not the driver at the time of the alleged parkin infringment.
on the 15/03/14 as the registered received a letter from DRP ref a demand for paymemnt of unpaid parkin fine,which of course, as the registered keeper decline the invitation to pay. Firstly this is the first corresponce about this matter as the registered keeper have recieved. as the registered kepper have neithere recieved a NTD nor a NTK first notice or NTK second notice. As you have failed to send the notifications within the specified time set out by the DVLA and POFA 2012 my rights have been denied and its a breach of Kadoe and the BPA CoP due to no NTK having been received so my rights to appeal have been denied. and there for will inform DVLA and the BPA ,as you are in clear breach of due prosses set out by DVLA and POFA2012 regarding this matter.As the rgistered keeper under the protection of the freedoms act 2013, the time limit for serving a parking charge notice baced upon ANPR evidence is 14 days ( there is a different time scale when a windscreen notice had been issued,but this is not the case hear) under the circmstances (me) is not required to provide you with the name of the driver and you are timed out for pursuing the driver for any charge.After cheaking the relivant sections of POFA (sections 6,7 and 9 ) as the registered keeper request/exspect all charges to be revoked and this matter to be closed. as the registered keeper look forward to reciveing your standard cancilation letter.
If you decide to ignor my reqest as keeper requier a copy of all previous corrispondece regarding this matter, and suporting images regarding the supposed infringment, prof of poostage ( which as you know is not proff of reciept) prof of receipt of such corrispondence I.E a signature.. If as keeper do not recived this with in the specived time as laid out in due prosses laid out by DVLA and POPLA as the registered keeper will take the matter as delt with and there for closed.
If you decide to carriey on with the prosess as the registered keeper remind you that as the registered keeper have not recived a NTK so will take the DRP letter as the NTK and there for all rights that acompany the NTK. so i there for wish to invoke your appeals process, and request a POPLA code, and since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:
1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass
Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:
- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.
- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.
- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).
Take formal note:
(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.
(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.
(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.
By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.
Yours,
is there any chance someone could look over it for me to make shaw its ok to send, thanx for any help . letter as follows.
Dear APCOA Parking (UK) LTD (Date Sent 17/03/2014)
PCN number xxxxxxxxxxxx
As the registered keeper and not the driver at the time of the alleged parkin infringment.
on the 15/03/14 as the registered received a letter from DRP ref a demand for paymemnt of unpaid parkin fine,which of course, as the registered keeper decline the invitation to pay. Firstly this is the first corresponce about this matter as the registered keeper have recieved. as the registered kepper have neithere recieved a NTD nor a NTK first notice or NTK second notice. As you have failed to send the notifications within the specified time set out by the DVLA and POFA 2012 my rights have been denied and its a breach of Kadoe and the BPA CoP due to no NTK having been received so my rights to appeal have been denied. and there for will inform DVLA and the BPA ,as you are in clear breach of due prosses set out by DVLA and POFA2012 regarding this matter.As the rgistered keeper under the protection of the freedoms act 2013, the time limit for serving a parking charge notice baced upon ANPR evidence is 14 days ( there is a different time scale when a windscreen notice had been issued,but this is not the case hear) under the circmstances (me) is not required to provide you with the name of the driver and you are timed out for pursuing the driver for any charge.After cheaking the relivant sections of POFA (sections 6,7 and 9 ) as the registered keeper request/exspect all charges to be revoked and this matter to be closed. as the registered keeper look forward to reciveing your standard cancilation letter.
If you decide to ignor my reqest as keeper requier a copy of all previous corrispondece regarding this matter, and suporting images regarding the supposed infringment, prof of poostage ( which as you know is not proff of reciept) prof of receipt of such corrispondence I.E a signature.. If as keeper do not recived this with in the specived time as laid out in due prosses laid out by DVLA and POPLA as the registered keeper will take the matter as delt with and there for closed.
If you decide to carriey on with the prosess as the registered keeper remind you that as the registered keeper have not recived a NTK so will take the DRP letter as the NTK and there for all rights that acompany the NTK. so i there for wish to invoke your appeals process, and request a POPLA code, and since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:
1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass
Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:
- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.
- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.
- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).
Take formal note:
(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.
(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.
(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.
By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.
Yours,
0
Comments
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They don't use pofa 2012 at airports so remove the references to it. Also run a spell check on the stuff you've added to coupons appeal, there are quite a few mistakes.
Edit: I think actually you need to remove all of it and just state you haven't had a NtK and you've made complaints to the dvla and bpaWhen posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
We don't need the following to help you.
Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
:beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:0 -
thanx. it was 1.00 this morning when i wrote the letter, spent 6 hrs on the forums trying to make sense of it. think i got carried a bit
will do , thanx for your help.0 -
Is this better ? thanx for all help .
Dear APCOA Parking (uk) LTD
PCN number xxxxxx
(letter sent 17/03/14)
As the registered keeper and not the driver at the time, I have received a letter on the 15/03/14 from DRP demanding payment which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I have not received an NTK or any correspondence before and the letter from DRP was the first i Knew about the parking charge. I have complained to both DVLA and the BPA about this matter. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:
1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass
Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:
- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.
- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.
- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).
Take formal note:
(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.
(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.
(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.
By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.
Yours,0 -
That's fine, but obviously only say you weren't the driver if that is so. There is another option and that is naming that driver, and resetting the clock to the beginning. The good thing about that is they will have admitted receiving that letter once they write to that person
Edit : actually remove that you weren't the driver, it only complicates matters and it's not needed in the letterWhen posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
We don't need the following to help you.
Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
:beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:0 -
thanx again. i will do that then will send to them today. ill keep you updated . thanx for all the advice.
i don't suppose there is a link to the correct address to send it to as can't seam to be able to find it?0 -
Well you need to send it to apcoa directly, don't send it to the debt collectors, so go to their website and get that address. Also try to send it via email. If you send by post get a free proof of postage from the post office.When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
We don't need the following to help you.
Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
:beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:0 -
Address: The Arcadian Centre, 41 Bromsgrove St, Birmingham, West Midlands B5 6NU
I scan/copy my fully, correctly addressed envelopes with CoP attached, but that's just me:-)CAP[UK]for FREE EXPERT DEBT &BUDGET HELP:
01274 760721, freephone0800 328 0006'People don't want much. They want: "Someone to love, somewhere to live, somewhere to work and something to hope for."
Norman Kirk, NZLP- Prime Minister, 1972
***JE SUIS CHARLIE***
'It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere' François-Marie AROUET
0 -
thanx again. ill send it by registered post today .0
-
NO NO NO - NOT by Registered Post. They can - and often do - refuse to sign for it.
Any letter posted with a first class stamp is deemed to be delivered within 2 working days, hence CoP only.
#
Please confirm you've read this.CAP[UK]for FREE EXPERT DEBT &BUDGET HELP:
01274 760721, freephone0800 328 0006'People don't want much. They want: "Someone to love, somewhere to live, somewhere to work and something to hope for."
Norman Kirk, NZLP- Prime Minister, 1972
***JE SUIS CHARLIE***
'It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere' François-Marie AROUET
0 -
bombhead71 wrote: »thanx again. ill send it by registered post today .
Don't use Signed For (aka Registered) mail, many PPCs won't accept it and as you then won't have a signature for it there will be categoric proof the PPC did not receive it.
Use free Certificate of Posting as this IS sufficient proof that it has been delivered - the law assumes that if proof of posting is provided then delivery will have taken place 2 days after (if using 1st Class post) posting.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.#Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0
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