ERUDIO student loans help

maryapple1993

Personally I feel sick that my SL has been sold off in this way. I had to go BR in 2007 and as a govt loan it could not be included in my insolvency. If my BR had happened now I wonder if things might be different?

fermi

maryapple1993 wrote: »

Personally I feel sick that my SL has been sold off in this way. I had to go BR in 2007 and as a govt loan it could not be included in my insolvency. If my BR had happened now I wonder if things might be different?

Small comfort, but it would still have been excluded, even now.

Banksters

Anna2007 - I think any loan signed for from when Teaching and Higher
Education Act 1998 came into force, would be covered by the Sale of Student Loans Act 2008 obligations.

Sale of Student Loans Act 2008 is defined as "An Act to enable the sale of rights to repayments of student loans; and for connected purposes. "

1. Sale of student loans

(2) "In subsection (1) “student loans” means loans made by the Secretary of State in
accordance with regulations under section 22 of the Teaching and Higher
Education Act 1998 (c.30) (“loan regulations”). "

Also, Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998, is mentioned in the Purchase Agreement between Erudio and SLC. So must apply.

Something else I have been pondering: As Carval's HQ is in the US, it would be interesting to know if it would be possible to sue them in the US? Then a class action type thing would be possible. I have absolute proof of fraud carried out by Erudio. I may threaten to sue them over it.

Anthony, could Carval be sued in the USA?

Brooker_Dave

Banksters wrote: »

Something else I have been pondering: As Carval's HQ is in the US, it would be interesting to know if it would be possible to sue them in the US? Then a class action type thing would be possible. I have absolute proof of fraud carried out by Erudio. I may threaten to sue them over it.

SPV/Charity which bought the loans is based in London and has 1 employee, Mark Filer.

You could always make a complaint to:

https://www.sec.gov/complaint/select.shtml

Given Mr F works for Wilmington Trust, and Erudio is bankrolled by Carval, but given the UK regulators simply don't care...

There's always:

http://www.eba.europa.eu/consumer-corner

fermi

anna2007 wrote: »

On the Sale of Student Loans Act 2008, I think this Act only applies to the later ICR loans? As far as I know, the Education Student Loans Act 1990 (with an update in 1998 to 'faciltate' sale to the private sector) is the only one relevant to our MS loans.

Correct.

Does not apply to any of the loans sold to Erudio.

Banksters wrote: »

Anna2007 - I think any loan signed for from when Teaching and Higher
Education Act 1998 came into force, would be covered by the Sale of Student Loans Act 2008 obligations.

No, only the new scheme income contingent ones.

Banksters wrote: »

Sale of Student Loans Act 2008 is defined as "An Act to enable the sale of rights to repayments of student loans; and for connected purposes. "

1. Sale of student loans

(2) "In subsection (1) “student loans” means loans made by the Secretary of State in
accordance with regulations under section 22 of the Teaching and Higher
Education Act 1998 (c.30) (“loan regulations”). "

Regulations under s22 are specifically and exclusively for provision of the new ICR loans, and not any of the mortgage style loans, even if they were post 1998 ones under the old scheme.

So it is only the new ICR loans that are covered by the 2008 sale act.

Banksters wrote: »

Also, Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998, is mentioned in the Purchase Agreement between Erudio and SLC. So must apply.

Incorrect assumption.

T&HEA1998 contained provisions on the amendment and repeal of the 1990 act under which mortgage style loans were made, and such changes were relevant to sale to Erudio so may be referenced in the agreement.

As above, that does not mean that the Sale of Student Loans Act 2008 applies to the sale of the mortgage style loans to Erudio, as they were not made under regulations from s22 of T&HEA1998.

anna2007

Banksters wrote: »

Anna2007 - I think any loan signed for from when Teaching and Higher
Education Act 1998 came into force, would be covered by the Sale of Student Loans Act 2008 obligations.

Sale of Student Loans Act 2008 is defined as "An Act to enable the sale of rights to repayments of student loans; and for connected purposes. "

1. Sale of student loans

(2) "In subsection (1) “student loans” means loans made by the Secretary of State in
accordance with regulations under section 22 of the Teaching and Higher
Education Act 1998 (c.30) (“loan regulations”). "

Also, Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998, is mentioned in the Purchase Agreement between Erudio and SLC. So must apply.

I agree with fermi there, if you look at Part 2 of the Teaching and Higher Education Act, it covers the ICR type scheme, which isn't relevant to our mortgage style loans. The only reference I can see to that Act in the S&P agreement is to say that complaints related to the collection of repayments under the Act are excluded from the Independent Assessor's investigations - it's page 73-75/86 of the S&P agreement:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pjzix1oh1awpi0z/Sale%20and%20Purchase%20Agreement.pdf?dl=0

Has anyone tried taking a complaint to the Independent Assessor? I can't see anything to say that we must use FOS and it has to be an option, otherwise it wouldn't be covered in the S&P agreement. It looks like Schedule 2(5) of the Education (Student Loans) Act 1990 gives us the right to take a dispute to the Independent Assessor:

Any arrangements made by virtue of this paragraph shall provide for the appointment of an independent person approved by the Secretary of State with the function of investigating and reporting on disputes between borrowers or intending borrowers under this Act and any person or body having the function of making loans under the arrangements.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/6/pdfs/ukpga_19900006_en.pdf

The SLC's annual report 2014/15 includes the Independent Assessor's Annual Report, which says:

Our appointments are statutory and are made under s23 (6) of the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998. Complaints about loans transferred to the private sector may be referred to us if they do not fall within the remit of the Financial Ombudsman Service, as may complaints about loans made under the older mortgage style loan scheme.

See page 104 here:

http://www.slc.co.uk/media/6183/slc_annual_report_1415.pdf

Does that mean if we have a mortgage style loan, we can refer a complaint to the Independent Assessor, regardless of FOS? And even if the part about loans transferred to the private sector refers to our loans (rather than any future transfer of ICR loans), FOS has stated in both of my decisions that points of law (both the CRA reporting and enforceability of the agreements) are court matters, so not within the remit of FOS.

Having said all that, the 'Independent' Assessors are recruited by BIS...

https://publicappointments.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Role-and-person-specification-Independent-Assessors-181214.docx

Banksters

I may be wrong, but why would the acts even be mentioned in the Purchase Agreement? There is clear mention of the Teaching and Higher Education Act in the Purchase Agreement. They are talking of complaints related to "loans granted under Teaching and Higher Education Act" etc. That would not be in there I don't think, if it did not apply. Although, I understand what you have said Fermi.

PLEAE SEE SCHEDULE 4 TERMS OF REFERENCE SECTION 3, (J)
PAGE 73 of the Purchase Agreement PDF.

Loans are defined as student loans in Sale of Student Loans Act 2008, referencing "Teaching and Higher Education Act", as I wrote before. So, some of the old loans are likely covered by the Sale of Student Loans Act 2008. Maybe a question to SLC or parliament is in order?

Anna2007 - Yes there is some kind of Assessor mentioned in the same section Page 73 above. I noted that before, but was not sure if that was the Ombudsman. There is enough evidence now of unfair treatment to merit a complaint to the Assessor.

A FOI request to the SLC / Erudio to find out who the Assessor is, would be wise.

fermi

No, in the Sale of Student Loans Act 2008, for the purpose of that Act:

“student loans” means loans made by the Secretary of State in accordance with regulations under section 22 of the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998

The mortgage style student loans sold to Erudio ARE NOT covered by that Act.

They were NOT made in accordance with those regulations made under s22 of T&HEA1998. Only the new IC loans were.

Whatever reason they have, perhaps for clarity, put that in, it does not mean that the mortgage style loans are covered by T&HEA1998 s22 or the Sale of Student Loans Act 2008.

Banksters

I cannot see anything in Section 22, that defines a student loan differently from the Erudio loans.The only thing possibly different is reference to this:

S 22. 5 (g)
"(g) applying or extending with or without modification, for
purposes connected with the recovery of amounts under
regulations made by virtue of this subsection, any of the
provisions of the Taxes Acts or of regulations under section 203
1988 c. 1. of the Income and Corporation Taxes Act 1988 (PAYE); "

As in, they were going to change the repayment method.

The rest of Section 22 is just the usual legal waffle. I think you could argue that the loans sold to Erudio were loans covered by Sale of Student Loans Act 2008. As, the definition provided of the said loans in Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998, is similar as the loans we took out.

eg
"22.—(1) Regulations shall make provision authorising or requiring the Secretary of State to make grants or loans, for any prescribed purposes, to eligible students in connection with their attending—
(a) higher education courses, or
(b) further education courses, "

One could possibly argue a "student loan" is a "student loan" whatever the case.

fermi

s22 T&HEA1998 is just empowering the making of regulations for the new style income contingent student loans.

The loans themselves are then made under those regulations. e.g. The Education (Student Support) Regulations 1998 and subsequent amendments.

Those regulations are NOT for the old style mortgage loans.

The old style mortgage loans ARE NOT made under any regulations under s22 T&HEA1998.

The old style loans therefore ARE not covered or subject to The Sale of Student Loans Act 2008.

One could possibly argue a "student loan" is a "student loan" whatever the case.

Not in terms of legislation. Act of parliament often contain their own self contained definitions, which are necessary to narrow their scope and make them specific and clear.

In this case specific to the the 2008 act "student loans" referred to in that act are those made under regulations made under s22 T&HEA1998.

It's the same in much other legislation, where otherwise what could be general terms are narrowed down for the purposes of that particular Act.