Ukcps ntk

stevew48

Hi,

I have received an NTK from UKCPS saying that I was observed without a valid permit or authority and I have ignored their windscreen fine.

I was parked on land that had a pay and Display machine and I paid the correct fee and obtained a ticket enabling me to park for 24 hrs. I placed the ticket inside my car on the dashboard and I had paid the correct fee. When I returned to my car well within the time I had paid for on my ticket there was no windscreen notice and the first I have heard about the car parking charge was when I received the NTK.

Unfortunately I do not have the car park ticket I bought but I did have somebody with me who can vouch that a ticket was purchased. They can also vouch that no parking charge notice was attached to the windscreen.

The letter says that because i did not pay the £60, of which I had no knowledge of, I can no longer appeal. Though, reading some forum posts it appears that I can still appeal and I have already downloaded the sample letter.

Any advice from learned posters would be most helpful

Regards

stevew48

ampersand

You've started well by reading the NEWBIES STICKY THREAD Steve and downloading c-m's excellent letter.

Follow all the advice and you'll pay nothing. Show us your letter, without anything to identify you or their so-called 'parking event', before you send it.

As it's UKCPS, just quickly read this hot-off-press post from The Parking Prankster[and read his blog]
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4922568

-post 6.

Coupon-mad

Send the template appeal as keeper, which you are entitled to do.

And can you show us a link to the sign on site please? Are there any entrance signs, take a photos from the entrance view (as if taken from a driver's seat) to show how unclear the site is. Also a picture of the P&D machine wording, and a close up of a sign wording. It's important because UKPCS sometimes pretend their extortionate charge is a contractual fee to park (but quite how they could argue this in a P&D car park where the fees are as set out on the machine, I don't know!).

stevew48

Coupon-mad wrote: »

UKPC are a different firm than UKCPS though. The latter are nastier but easy to beat at POPLA. Send the template appeal as keeper, which you are entitled to do.

And can you show us a link to the sign on site please? Are there any entrance signs, take a photos from the entrance view (as if taken from a driver's seat) to show how unclear the site is. Also a picture of the P&D machine wording, and a close up of a sign wording. It's important because UKPCS sometimes pretend their extortionate charge is a contractual fee to park (but quite how they could argue this in a P&D car park where the fees are as set out on the machine, I don't know!).

Hi Coupon Mad,

Thanks for your advice. I have taken photographs of the entrance, also the pad and display machine wording and their signs. What is the best method of sending you/showing a link


Stevew

bod1467

Upload to photobucket or similar and put links in a reply here.

If the links won't post (although you should have enough post count now to be able to) then simply remove the http part and leave the rest (:// etc.)

ColliesCarer

post on a photo sharing site and then provide the link.
make sure no personal info in the name of the link - create a new hot mail account if needs be

apols bod - was posting and hadn't seen you'd already replied

stevew48

bod1467 wrote: »

Upload to photobucket or similar and put links in a reply here.

If the links won't post (although you should have enough post count now to be able to) then simply remove the http part and leave the rest (:// etc.)

Thanks,
<a href="http://s853.photobucket.com/user/stevew48/media/stevesphonemar141164_zpsdaa3bf79.jpg.html&quot; targethttp://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab92/stevew48/stevesphonemar141167_zps6d017849.jpg="_blank"><img src="http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab92/stevew48/stevesphonemar141164_zpsdaa3bf79.jpg&quot; border="0" alt=" photo stevesphonemar141164_zpsdaa3bf79.jpg"/></a>

Not sure how many have uploaded i have 8 in total so can post more links

stevew

Coupon-mad

http://s853.photobucket.com/user/stevew48/media/stevesphonemar141170_zpsb0e25ead.jpg.html

I think I cold see all of them there by clicking on 'next' each time.

What fun! One of the signs says there will be a 'penalty' notice issued and the machine says the fake PCN would be for 'contravening' the terms.

So send the template first appeal I wrote in the NEWBIES thread - no need to adapt it unless you want to add a point #4 to point out the use of the word 'penalty' and state this proves this is not a contractual fee nor a genuine pre-estimate of any loss at all - and see what drivel they send back.

stevew48

Coupon-mad wrote: »

http://s853.photobucket.com/user/stevew48/media/stevesphonemar141170_zpsb0e25ead.jpg.html

I think I cold see all of them there by clicking on 'next' each time.

What fun! One of the signs says there will be a 'penalty' notice issued and the machine says the fake PCN would be for 'contravening' the terms.

So send the template first appeal I wrote in the NEWBIES thread - no need to adapt it unless you want to add a point #4 to point out the use of the word 'penalty' and state this proves this is not a contractual fee nor a genuine pre-estimate of any loss at all - and see what drivel they send back.

Thanks CPM I have drafted my letter which more or less follows your template. Can you please confirm all appears okay before I post it to them

Thanks Stevew

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: Notice to Keeper

As the registered keeper, I have received your Notice to Keeper (NTK) which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract.
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass.
4) On your signage your use of the word 'penalty' proves this is not a contractual fee nor a genuine pre-estimate of any loss at all.

Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:


- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

Take formal note:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.


(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.


(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.


Yours Sincerely

Coupon-mad

Yep that's fine to post, not recorded delivery though as PPCs don't sign for letters and it's always daft to send things recorded delivery to a company, to arrive on a Saturday!

stevew48

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Yep that's fine to post, not recorded delivery though as PPCs don't sign for letters and it's always daft to send things recorded delivery to a company, to arrive on a Saturday!

Hi I have now received a further letter from ukcps saying that my appeal was rejected and I should now pay the standard rate and if not received within 14 days I would have to pay £100. I didn't appeal as it was the template letter mentioned above. Today I also received photographs showing the car with a PCN attached to the windscreen. However, when I returned to my car there was nothing on my windscreen !!!. They have sent a POPLA code and I have entered it using the link in the NEWBIES thread and it is a genuine code. I assume the next step is the appeal to POPLA. Is there a template to be modified for UKCPS and similar ?

Many thanks

Stevew