Nice People Thread Number 11 - A Treasury of Nice People

lostinrates

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

I will! If you are passing our neck of the woods (any other NP, too) please do drop in and give him your own cuddle - just email or PM me.



Lots of kisses and cuddles.

Fantastic - glad you adn FIR are in accord.

I imagine, though, you manage as a couple to deal with discord, too?

Yes, but we genuinely don't have much discord. Different points of view and opinions, yes, very much so, but we both enjoy that. My only gripe is he won't row. I love a good blow out but have to do it by myself while he watches. . This happens quite rarely because its hard to argue alone!

We discuss a lot. And I love that. . I cannot imagine much worse than living in a relationship where the conversation was monotone, and different experiences lead to some different points of view, and where we share opinions they are dear to us. We also win each other over and have brought new things to each other's tables, conversationally and in the way of experiences. Again, through virtue of difference in previous lives. Fabulous.



I very much would like to come and kiss that baby. . You think you are mooning over him. :rotfl: I say it a gain, you GOOD and cLEVER neverdespairgirl.

LydiaJ

Generali wrote: »

Well for a start, the universe(s) may well be infinite. If not then you couldn't go beyond it/them as there is no beyond.

The current understanding is that it is not infinite, although we don't know how big it is because we can't detect anything further away than 12ish billion light years, and it's bigger than that.

If there is "beyond" then that "beyond" is not in the 3D space that we inhabit, just as space "beyond" the Earth, is not part of the 2D surface of the Earth.

For an introduction to thinking about universes with more dimensions than we experience, read the second part of the Victorian book Flatland. It's written by a square who lives in a 2D universe and meets a sphere who eventually succeeds in getting him to believe that a 3rd dimension is possible. I say to read the 2nd part, because the 1st part is an extended description of the class-ridden and ultra-sexist social conditions in the 2D universe, which may offer some insight into Victorian attitudes but doesn't help much with imagining a 4D universe.

It's out of copyright and available on Project Gutenberg here: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/97
Part II starts about 40% of the way down.

lostinrates

silvercar wrote: »

I'm not buying that. We know that bees won't sting you, unless greatly upset, because they will die if they do; whereas wasps are more likely to sting you because it doesn't kill them.

At least that was what I was told as a child.

Generali wrote: »

We have stingless bees in Australia. They don't sting you because they can't!

I'm with you though. I reckon at some level, some animals will understand about the cessation of life. If they didn't why would they run from danger? Fight or flight must surely be based on the fragility of life.

Some people have theorised religion and grieving, but some apes ( monkeys / apes aren't my area at ALL) have demonstrated 'ritualistic' behaviours. Now, while I doubt they are foolish enough to start religious wars i cannot remember how ritualistic was defined. This will have been something I read only once when I was about nineteen, just not my area. Ritualistic rather than habitual might be hard to determine?

Grieving is certainly shown in more than one species. Many domestic animals are known to. ( some breeds of dog for example are described as 'one person dogs' ) and I think elephants unless that's anecdotal ( cannot remember ATM, I have been up for a long time and driven a long way!)

Need for own species companion ship I think can be very telling. Social animals do better ( normally) when kept socially. There are many tales of racehorses with pet goats etc but iirc studies show biochemistry is 'happier ' when kept nearest to how meant to be as possible. This is kinda my old and I should be able to say more about it. I should know more about the other stuff too, but its a bit 'wishy washy' what I can re all, so its better to be vague. :D

Edit: my own opinion is that us and them depends on where your standing. Species to species, predator to prey, flight to earthbound, or aquatic.....we don't like thinking like that. Of course, we chose to think like it about some people in recent history , and still do in many ways . Its natural and even I think instinctual to categorise. Survivalist. So etimes misplaced .

lostinrates

Last time I was at the new consultant hospital the nurse who took blood was the nurse who saw me from old new consultant. She's really nice. Anyway, I wrote a letter to the group that own private hospital saying how lovely she was. Today when I got their she gave me a HUGE hug and shown EVERYBODY the email. Apparently it had a more tangible benefit for her too .

tomterm8

lostinrates wrote: »

Many domestic animals are known to. ( some breeds of dog for example are described as 'one person dogs' ) and I think elephants unless that's anecdotal ( cannot remember ATM, I have been up for a long time and driven a long way!)

I've seen sheep grieving, for what it's worth, and it's not a pretty sight.

tomterm8

michaels wrote: »

Are you certain - I thought missing matter and therefore the possibility of a 'big crunch' were still on tbc list....

I mean, in the short term. The universe MAY collapse into a big singularity but for the moment it somehow turned from a point source into an expanding universe.

LydiaJ wrote: »

Ah, now I see what you were saying. Thanks for clarifying. Presumably the energy involved in the big bang was much much bigger than any energy source since.

It shouldn't in theory be possible to escape a black hole (er, although black holes do emit hawking radiation) because anything inside the black hole would need to accelerate to faster than the speed of light to escape the black hole. Relativity shows that to reach the speed of light you'd need an infinite amount of kinetic energy.

So, unless the energy source involved in the big bang is infinite it shouldn't be possible for the universe to exist.

And note: our best belief is that the universe is not infinite, and so energy also can't be infinite.

lostinrates

tomterm8 wrote: »

I've seen sheep grieving, for what it's worth, and it's not a pretty sight.

That's interesting.

The horses performed something I'd never seen before when special girl died. And I've seen other horses die. It was most odd.

I think the reason we have an 'us' and them attitude is mainly so we cope with the emotionality of our role as exploiters and As predators.


Much as we did with slaves.

Its difficult for some people to get their heads round having different niches in a pyramid, Especially when the pyramid is a bit weird and people in general are a bit removed from it.

My own personal ethos is that I don't expect my dogs/cats to be vegetarian and I couldn't ethically be vegetarian ( understanding the way the industry works, or should work) without being vegan and I feel the best ethical and biological decision on all counts is to eat ethically farmed meat and animal products.

I have struggled with my role as exploiter, And if not won the warm at least called a truce. For now. The great thing is, I can change my mind if I want to later.


I consider my animals my family, and certainly an emotional surrogate for my need to care, but that's different from considering them 'human babies' they are adult animals. Their needs are different from human babies indeed! Just as they have adapted to domesticity I can adapt to providing a care role to their needs.

I consider animals people, but not human. I don't like all animals, just as I don't like all people. I am disinclined to some species by bigotry sometimes and incompatibility sometimes.

I do find it easier emotionally to eat what I don't ID with so easily emotionally. ( sorry fish) but I prefer the taste of things I happen to feel inclined to like as people generally, like cows and pigs.

I'm not find of sheep as a 'group' though have known some very funny and personable sheep people. I don't keep them becUse although they would solve many issues for me they would create lots too. Sheep are always in trouble, and that annoys be about them. You can never rely on a sheep. Its difficult to like someone you
cannot trust.

Sorry tom, I realise these guys are probably people you think well of as a group.

tomterm8

lostinrates wrote: »

Sorry tom, I realise these guys are probably people you think well of as a group.

Take into account that the sheep I have are Hebridean sheep that were breed to basically look after themselves on a scottish mountain for ten months of the year... any Hebridean sheep that couldn't get itself out of trouble wouldn't live to tell the tale.

These sheep are temperamentally more like goats.

They are also very, very good at escaping and making you look like a d**n fool

tomterm8

lostinrates wrote: »

I have struggled with my role as exploiter, And if not won the warm at least called a truce.

I don't consider Animals to be people; not domestic animals, not pets.

Of course when you take responsibility for an animal you have to make sure that you give it everything that it needs.

I eat sheep. I eat sheep that I've cared for. If everyone stopped eating sheep the same thing that happened to, say, the turnspit dog which became extinct because the purpose it was bred for was deemed cruel.

lostinrates

tomterm8 wrote: »

I don't consider Animals to be people; not domestic animals, not pets.

Of course when you take responsibility for an animal you have to make sure that you give it everything that it needs.

I eat sheep. I eat sheep that I've cared for. If everyone stopped eating sheep the same thing that happened to, say, the turnspit dog which became extinct because the purpose it was bred for was deemed cruel.

I eat animal people I know and carte about. You are safe from me though, you are a virtual friend and have law protecting you. .

Michaels will be a long to make a lewd joke about eating people soon......