Humberside airport pcn

Apathy

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4812555

Hey guys.! So the RK has received a pcn for 'no stopping/waiting in restricted areas or roadways' penalty by VCS similar to the thread above, however the driver was parked up near a roundabout before the entrance to the parking area and let somebody out and parked well out of the way as it was a large roundabout area. and debating whether or not to enter the parking payment tolls. it must have been 2 to 3 mins but no engine switched off.! now the RK is looking to appeal, so do they follow the same template as the above! do they have a strong case to win or are they in the wrong?! No double yellows or the grid locked yellows they dont believe where they were situated.

replies appreciated. thanks!

Apathy

Redx

what happened on the day is not relevant and will have no bearing on your appeal, so not where the driver stopped, not who stopped etc

your appeal will be based on not a gpeol , no contract , not relevant land and poor signage etc

do not admit who was driving , have this appealed as RK by the RK

follow the template in the NEWBIES thread, then use a popla appeal similar to any other recent Humberside popla appeal you find on here

edit your first post to remove the personal details of who was driving etc, its not relevant , or alter it to say THE DRIVER and stop using the word I

the word I is what incriminates people

Redx

alter post #1 to something like this, with a lot less irrelevant and incriminating info (these are private roads so bylaws exist but they are using PARKING laws and POFA 2012 does not apply here hence why the driver isnt named)

Hey guys.

So the RK has received a pcn for 'no stopping/waiting in restricted areas or roadways' penalty by VCS similar to the thread above, however the driver was parked up near a roundabout before the entrance to the parking area and let somebody out and parked well out of the way as it was a large roundabout area. and debating whether or not to enter the parking payment tolls. it must have been 2 to 3 mins but no engine switched off.

now the RK is looking to appeal, so do they follow the same template as the above

do they have a strong case to win or are they in the wrong?

No double yellows or the grid locked yellows they dont believe where they were situated.

replies appreciated. thanks

Coupon-mad

Everyone has a strong case to win - just use the NEWBIES thread template first appeal and then wait for the rejection & POPLA code. Meanwhile find any pre-written VCS Airport POPLA appeal on the forum; there are loads the same talking about no-stopping zones, not relevant land, etc.

Apathy

Does it make any difference to state to them if i immediately went to use the parking space after and then left within the allocated time limit (15 mins) and still used their parking or is it irrelevent? im going to write a draft later so show you guys before i send it off. Many thanks to those who replied

Redx

irrelevant, as the place the car stopped is the wrong place according to their "rules" , which is why they issued the PCN

its private roads and private roundabouts and they do not want people to stop for any reason and so they issue parking tickets as road enforcement notices

if you stop , for any reason , you get a ticket , end of !

just stick to the tried and tested appeal process outlined on here , bearing in mind that any popla decision will not relate to "what happened"

in your last post you used the word I yet again

I I I , you really need to stop the unthinking use of this capital letter !

please alter it to say THE DRIVER

if the driver immediately went to use the parking space after

Coupon-mad

You don't need a draft letter, please read the advice already given & use the template.

Apathy

Regards, The registered keeper

Dear VehicleControl Service Ltd

PCN number xxxxxxxxxxx

On March 9th2014 . The car xxxxxx ( of which I am the registered keeper )stopped for only2-3 minutes to allow a passenger to be let out before looking at the terms ofthe parking conditions before proceeding to enter the car park at Humberside Airport well out of the way. Iwas not in control of the vehicle at this particular time either.

The car was not parked , the engine was always still running.


This appeal is for the following reasons. No Parking was made. The car was inposition for less than 3 minutes whilst 1 person got out of the vehicle. NoContract was knowingly entered and no losses have been demonstrated. Signs orwarnings were not adequate.


As the registered keeper, I have received your parkinginvoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invokeyour appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the followingbasis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to yourcompany or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was notsufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contractsnor to bring a claim for trespass.

Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailedrejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) asyour signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failedto make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guessthe nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require abreakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when thiscalculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please alsoexplain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the allegedcontravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuinepre-estimate of loss.

- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof ofthe liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice byreturn and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee.Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requestedit, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer topark for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law(as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the caseof Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

Take formal note:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if youpersist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that ofany agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as foundby Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46(10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You havebeen informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to sendfurther letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence ofyour persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify youractions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver,alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidencewhen clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will bereported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach ofyour Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I mustinform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of£18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the costof stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidateddamages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when Iprevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Yours faithfully,


i put the actual name here of the registered keeper here plus signature.







So is ok to send now? thanks

Redx

nope, still using the capital letter I despite being told not to

I would not admit to doing anything untoward at all, nor the driver either , let them prove their case, dont hand it to them on a plate

beat them on legal points only

so get rid of this for starters

On March 9th2014 . The car xxxxxx ( of which I am the registered keeper )stopped for only2-3 minutes to allow a passenger to be let out before looking at the terms ofthe parking conditions before proceeding to enter the car park at Humberside Airport well out of the way. Iwas not in control of the vehicle at this particular time either.

The car was not parked , the engine was always still running.


This appeal is for the following reasons. No Parking was made. The car was inposition for less than 3 minutes whilst 1 person got out of the vehicle. NoContract was knowingly entered and no losses have been demonstrated. Signs orwarnings were not adequate.

Apathy

Sorry for being a newb but are you saying to get rid of the paragraph altogether or just take out the 'i' bit out but replace it with what in your opinion? Can you reword plz as how you would send it. thanks.


Edit. the letter they sent the RK told me the registered keeper must give details of who was drivin the vehicle if it wasnt the Rk