Possible constructive dismissal help needed

8LGM

Hi.

Can someone give me any idea if I may have a case or not, and if so how best to progress the issue?

I work for a large and aggressive organisation. After a re-organisation I found myself with a new boss. To cut to the chase, I put myself forward for promotion (after a number of senior staff suggested I was a good candidate). My new boss put a number of obstacles in the way (all of which were found to be fabricated or invalid). Due to this I took out a grievance procedure which was found in my favour. I tried to patch things up with my boss and create a n environment of mutual respect but this was simply pushed aside and the blocking continued.

I have since been signed off from work with stress and depression (diagnosed by my doctor and a specialist as work related).
I feel strongly that I have been victimised with a view to force me out of my job - I could not be sacked as all my reviews have been well above that required for the job and if they tried to make me redundant it would be difficult as I have more experience than anyone else in the department (including my boss).

I believe the problem lays in two areas firstly I suspect he is discriminating against me due to age (56) and also because I question some of his decisions (often showing is logic to be flawed). BTW I only question with a view to improve and never to simply criticise.

Can anyone tell me how I can find out if I have any case or if I am just over-reacting.

P.S. After 40 years in employment I have never come even close to anything like this before and never even considered grievance procedures before.

MrsTinks

Ok the age discrimination can't be proved unless you have witnesses or evidence to say that he's commented that it is due to your age. Sorry assumption won't work. As far as questioning a manager in whether their logic is flawed... so long as this isn't done in front of a team and therefor undermining their authority then a good manager should accept critisism (and I say that being in charge of a team of 20 support engineers myself...) - if they feel you have been undermining them infront of the team then this should have been taken up in your reviews and one 2 ones.
The doctor saying your stress is work related and a "specialist"? They are judging this on YOUR testemonials... I don't know if this would have any weight in any tribunal.
If you feel victimised at work then contact your HR deparment and read your employee handbook. Find out the procedure in place within the company and follow it. As far as "standing in your way" to get a promotion goes, no matter how suitable your co-workers say they think you are, then your manager may have good reason for not supporting any applications you have made for promotion. As for actual obstacles, what kind of obstacles?

Sorry I know that is very negative overall really but if you are already depressed then one thing you don't need is to take on a battle that you won't win - so definitely go through the proper process as stated in your employee handbook and check with CAB too for advice.

Best of luck

Luvly.cuppa.T

Okay practical stuff?

Your options are speak to manager on a one to one basis, ask for this specifially ie a chat with your manager when he is free. Small glimmer of hope that this might work for you, if you can explain where you are coming from and perhaps he can offer some insight to his actions that make sense.

Other option is to write another grievance. Companies are supposed to take 'victimisation' seriously, although in my exerience they don't. I was told in my grievance that victimisation is taken seriously (I stated my fear of bringing a grievance against my boss, because I've seen her reaction in these situations before, and they are sneaky nasty ways), but have yet to see that.

I was victimised, wrote in second grievance, but none of my points were upheld. Mainly because there were no witnesses to what was said,with the only witness, a member of higher staff, who actually lied in her favour (I'm still angry about that one- thought it was someone I could trust, as I worked with him in a previous job too....:mad: snakes, man, snakes, look out for them)

I was suspended for my duties with full pay, as I 'felt uncomfortable at work' and the situation required it, yet even in my appeal they still did not uphold that I was being victimised. Or bullied. my case was that my boss threatened me with a slander case for untrue allegations, suddenly had no extra work for me over the holidays, suddenly cut my hours that I did regularly, I suddenly had 2 unauthorised abscences (one was a holiday booked with her, and the other family sickness, i told her 24 hrs before shift- got 3 kids you see), had her partner make remarks when I close by, "like revenge is sweet, we don't like snitchers"- inferring that they were planning something, and many other things on those lines, with gossiping to all the regulars about me- christ knows what was said....

So all that was 'nothing' to the company, as there was no evidence to back me up. They were supposed to look further into staffs' hours etc reinterview the 'lier' to see if he changed his mind , but they didn't.

I'm not sure if I just have a crap company here, or if this is the way it normally goes.

Sorry for the long post, but thought that if I share my experiences and you can relate, then it'll give you an idea of how it was handled from my end. Pleased to say boss resigned in an unusually fast manner, but will never know if this was her being clever to avoid what was coming, or if it was put on her.

With constructive dismissal, you will not have a hope in hell with this if you go straight for it. you need to follow a greivance, then appeal if it's not the desired outcome, then make your decision from there. Things could go in your favour....

Get all dates written down, and witnesses and maybe have a chat with them beforehand. If anyone that has left work that has been a witness, then they are as good as non-existent. I guess you could get them to write a letter in though, should this be the case.
Good luck and keep us updated.

How long have you been there?

CFC

8LGM wrote: »

Hi.


To cut to the chase, I put myself forward for promotion (after a number of senior staff suggested I was a good candidate). My new boss put a number of obstacles in the way (all of which were found to be fabricated or invalid). Due to this I took out a grievance procedure which was found in my favour. I tried to patch things up with my boss and create a n environment of mutual respect but this was simply pushed aside and the blocking continued.

I have since been signed off from work with stress and depression (diagnosed by my doctor and a specialist as work related).
I feel strongly that I have been victimised with a view to force me out of my job - I could not be sacked as all my reviews have been well above that required for the job

Firstly, let me offer you my sympathies. For a good employee, you must feel pushed to the limit in order to take a grievance out against your manager. You say that the outcome was in your favour. You said that despite the grievance going in your favour you are still having problems.

Can you tell us more in order that we could offer help and suggestions? It would help to know what was said in the outcome letter (if there was one) and exactly what problems you are having. You appear to be implying that the problem is that you are still being passed over for promotion - I find it hard to believe that is the only difficulty you are facing?

Being passed over for promotion is a difficult one, because at the end of the day the person who is going to be promoted is the one the manager thinks most suitable for the job. You may indeed be right that there is age discrimination going on, it would not be unusual, but proving it is an entirely different kettle of fish. At the end of the day, being passed over for promotion is not likely to be grounds for constructive dismissal. There needs to be other elements at play for a constructive dismissal claim, and before you could go down that route you would need to exhaust your internal routes for grievance, including raising another one if the outcomes from your first have not been implemented.

8LGM

Hi.

Firstly, thanks for all your responses, it is really appreciated.

In my first post I did not want to go into great detail and bore everyone, but I guess I was a little too terse. So I guess I need to some more meat around the bone.

The department was reformed it was split into 3 different sections. I suggested that I would prefer to work for one of the other sections as projects that area particularly interested me. I was told that I was too valuable to be transferred and that he needed me in the department
I was put on “legacy” work whilst the rest of the section was put on “the brave new way forward” work.

I found out from an HR talk that staff could put themselves forward for promotion if they felt they had the right qualifications from a skills perspective and that you make it clear that you wished to be considered for promotion. Promotion criteria is very precisely documented for each promotion level. This is to allow staff to move within the company and retain their seniority as the skills are standard across the company.

I decided to put myself forward (via my boss as was the process). I knew that there was no chance of promotion that year but felt that I should let my desire be known for next . My boss simply replied that the list was now closed and that I could not be put forward. I found out that this was not true and verified with HR that the list was indeed still open for submissions. I assumed (always a bad thing) that my boss had made a simple mistake and not lied to me. I contacted him to say what HR had said, to reapply for consideration for promotion and also supplied fully documented evidence as to how I saw I fitted all the pre-defined skills requirements.

He arranged a meeting between himself, myself HR and my immediate and his opening remark at the meeting was “You know if you don’t like working for this department you can always leave” ! He then went on to say that I was bottom of the list in the department for consideration for promotion. I asked why and was told that I did not have the competencies needed. I pointed out that I had put forward a case for each of the requirements and asked where I was lacking. He then said that there were additional competencies needed over and above those documented and it was these that I failed on. I asked what they were and was told that they were still being finalised. This was the main thrust of my grievance I was being measured against something for which I (or my supervisor) knew nothing nor were we going to be told - as such I could do nothing but fail.

It was in the following few day that I started to get angry over the way I was treated and it was at this point I took out the grievance procedure. Which was successful. The outcome was that a report would be sent to him with recommendations on changes required. I suggested that I would discuss with him that we needed to work together to rebuild the working relationship.

I waited for the report to be issued and arranged the meting with him. I was aghast to be told that as far as he was concerned he was not at fault and nothing needed to be done, end of conversation.

So, I tried another approach to get back on track. We have three monthly reviews where targets are set and progress is monitored. This process is the key to promotion as your targets are set based on what you need to prove to show your abilities etc. Over the next 6 months I continually requested to be told what the new competencies were so that targets could be set and measured. Each time I was told that they were not yet agreed. This finally came to a head when it was time to sign off the quarterly review. I refused. I was then asked to sign it off and it would all be sorted out afterwards. I refused.

Then at 16:00 on the Friday deadline day I was told that there were in fact no new competencies and that only the existing ones were going to be used. So would I sign it off. I said I would consider it but I would not sign it off there and then. I decided not to as I saw this as a simply him getting himself out of a tight corner.

There’s more to it but that’s it in a nutshell.