Income Support/Carers Allowance dispute threat of jail

nad1611

Hi. I don't have all the details but can give a brief outline. An acquaintance had a fairly lucrative record deal back in the 90's and received royalties etc, he was going to go on to sign and american deal but his mum became ill and he had no choice but to give it up and look after his Mum instead. Since that time he has married and has a wife,two kids and has continued to be the main carer for his Mum. As he has had to be available at most times for his Mum he couldn't be available for work and with a wife and kids he had claimed Income Support and Carers Allowance.

As said above he also receives Royalties and this is where his problems began because he couldn't tell DWP the exact amounts he told them some quarterly amounts might only be £30 or as much as £1000. He absolutely admits this was wrong but when he asked about it he was told that if he erned as much as £1000 he wouldn't be able to claim IS, even tohugh he told them he might not earn anything like that amount, so he ended up not declaring it.

Now the DWP have got wind of it and are threatening legal action and have told him he owes about £29000 ad if he doesn't pay it, he could be facing a jail sentence.

His financial situation remains unchanged and I'm wondering if whilst completely accepting his wrong doing is there any chance here for a repayment of a small amount over time to repay what he owes rather than the jail sentence leaving his Mum who's really not well and his wife and kids. To be honest it's difficult to see how they came up with the £29000 as they didn't know what the actual Royalty figures were over the period they've estimated these benefits. Any help gratefully considered.

Lioness_Twinkletoes

I am assuming the Royalty payments were paid into a bank account? Therefore, it would be easy to ascertain how much he had received, by simply looking at the statements with a calculator.

Have the DWP invited him for an interview under caution? Are they considering a court case? Has your friend asked them to provide a breakdown of the overpayment? If so, jail is a possibility. He needs legal help, not help from a forum.

Your friend has broken the law and I personally hope that he is forced to pay back every penny he was not entitled to.

nad1611

Thanks for your response although why people have to state the obvious is beyond me. Perhaps you missed the " He absolutely admits this was wrong"
I did already say Jail was a possibility so didn't need that reiterated and I also said he knows it was wrong he's not trying to worm his way out of repayment, where did I say that? I at no point asked how can he get away with this scot free!! He doesn't know I'm asking but I as a friend simply wanted to see if anyone knew anymore than I did. His only concern are those who depend on him. I think you'll also find that people ask all sorts of questions on here even if it's obvious legal help will be the final order of the day, it's called getting a heads up as people on these forums have a wealth of knowledge.

I've just asked him all these questions and a few more, will await a response so don't know what stage it's actually at although, he first mentioned this back in july and I think the fact he's now mentioning a custodial sentence he may have gone through the Caution or Admin Penalty.

FBaby

Wanting to repay a small amount when you owe such a huge amount is to me not that much different to wanting to worm your way out of it. How small is he talking? How long a period would he consider acceptable?

lld01

With the amount in question. prosecution would be likely
They will still seek recovery of the overpayment whether prosecuted or not.
They do allow people to repay on a weekly/monthly basis depending on their income

bll78

Does he owe £29,000 though? To come up with a figure that high then it sounds like they're trying to reclaim all benefits. If some quarterly amounts were £30 thats approx £2.50 a week earnings so it shouldn't impact on benefits that month. Even with £1,000 a quarter that's approx £83 a week earnings. I'm no expert on earning rules with IS and CA going back all that time, but in today's market that amount wouldn't effect his CA.
I would suggest he gets his old banks statements and quarter by quarter look at his payments and calculate the weekly equivalents. From this he can work out how many times he was over the threshold if at all and calculate how much benefits he does owe back.
I think the fact he's talking about quarterly earning amounts makes the income sound large, saying £2.50 - £83 a week will enable everyone to calculate it against the weekly earning income disregards.

nad1611

FBaby wrote: »

Wanting to repay a small amount when you owe such a huge amount is to me not that much different to wanting to worm your way out of it. How small is he talking? How long a period would he consider acceptable?

Okay so as said already he doesn't have any repayment or length of repayment in mind, he doesn't know I'm asking so again he's not trying to worm out of anything.

Caz3121

over what time period is this? (you mention the 90's but not sure if you mean he has been claiming benefits for 20+ years)
Is it only IS and CA, or was he also receiving housing benefit, council tax benefit, tax credits etc
by working out all the benefits he was receiving and the time period you would be able to see if the £29k seems a likely figure

nad1611

bll78 wrote: »

Does he owe £29,000 though? To come up with a figure that high then it sounds like they're trying to reclaim all benefits. If some quarterly amounts were £30 thats approx £2.50 a week earnings so it shouldn't impact on benefits that month. Even with £1,000 a quarter that's approx £83 a week earnings. I'm no expert on earning rules with IS and CA going back all that time, but in today's market that amount wouldn't effect his CA.
I would suggest he gets his old banks statements and quarter by quarter look at his payments and calculate the weekly equivalents. From this he can work out how many times he was over the threshold if at all and calculate how much benefits he does owe back.
I think the fact he's talking about quarterly earning amounts makes the income sound large, saying £2.50 - £83 a week will enable everyone to calculate it against the weekly earning income disregards.

Thanks for this. Yes this is what I was thinking, it does sound as though they are simply reclaiming all benefits rather than what he was overpaied, it's a bit difficult without actually seeing him to get a clear answer from him as he's in a bit of a bad place mentally. Royalties would be easy to find out as you say bank details but also form the PRS and PPL themselves a record is kept on your account anyway. Thanks again.

nad1611

Caz3121 wrote: »

over what time period is this? (you mention the 90's but not sure if you mean he has been claiming benefits for 20+ years)
Is it only IS and CA, or was he also receiving housing benefit, council tax benefit, tax credits etc
by working out all the benefits he was receiving and the time period you would be able to see if the £29k seems a likely figure

Have just sent him these very questions, no he hasn't been claiming all that time.

Lioness_Twinkletoes

nad1611 wrote: »

Thanks for your response although why people have to state the obvious is beyond me. Perhaps you missed the " He absolutely admits this was wrong"
I did already say Jail was a possibility so didn't need that reiterated and I also said he knows it was wrong he's not trying to worm his way out of repayment, where did I say that? I at no point asked how can he get away with this scot free!! He doesn't know I'm asking but I as a friend simply wanted to see if anyone knew anymore than I did. His only concern are those who depend on him. I think you'll also find that people ask all sorts of questions on here even if it's obvious legal help will be the final order of the day, it's called getting a heads up as people on these forums have a wealth of knowledge.

I've just asked him all these questions and a few more, will await a response so don't know what stage it's actually at although, he first mentioned this back in july and I think the fact he's now mentioning a custodial sentence he may have gone through the Caution or Admin Penalty.

That's OK, you get all narky because you don't like my response.

I look forward to hearing about your 'friend's' case in the papers