Bank charges - interim success

arthur2

In 2005 I started to receive Disability Living Allowance after major surgery and amputation due to clinical negligence. In the overall hassle I was forced to stop working and ran up debts. HSBC though allowed me an overdraft which was fine until DWP erroneously stopped the DLA in 2006 - claiming that I had "recovered from losing my leg"!! They took months to re-instate the DLA.

I had already spoken to HSBC at nearby branch who knew me. I was assured that as the problem was due to DWP and not of my making, they would be sympathetic to my need to extend my overdraft. However in the event this did not happen, and this had a knock-on effect of putting this account overdrawn. HSBC then proceeded to charge exorbitant bank charges (hardly being sympathetic!) and pushed the overdrawn balance up to £1,315. The unreasonable charging was split between a sole trader "business" and joint personal account.

I was at the time receiving treatment for depression, due to limb loss caused by negligence, and I wrote to HSBC requesting that it be dealt with as a fast-track charges refund claim. HSBC denied any liability and every 18 months or so they put a debt collector onto me. Apart from the HSBC left hand and right hand not knowing what they were doing when they screwed up my account, they now have had no less than FOUR DCA firms involved! The first one, Metropolitan, went quiet, as did Wescot and Clarity. All initially harassed me by phone, but all went quiet when told the history. Appointing a fourth has been noted as additional harassment. The "debt" was assigned the fourth time (to Marlin FS).

I eventually was well enough to "push back" again, and issued a MoneyClaimOnline jointly against HSBC and Marlin for the total plus interest at the 8% rate. HSBC took the matter back in house, and I discontinued the claim against Marlin.

I subsequently entered a CCJ against HSBC as they did not enter any defence to my claim - the Court had heard nothing apart from a change of address.

I have heard nothing more from HSBC and wonder what to do next. One of my friends had a dispute with a bank about 20 years ago and only got settlement when he initiated a winding-up petition! I am rather reluctant to go that far. Has any other forum member enforced a judgment against a bank?!

Cheers

Aquamania

arthur2 wrote: »

In 2005 I started to receive Disability Living Allowance after major surgery and amputation due to clinical negligence. In the overall hassle I was forced to stop working and ran up debts. HSBC though allowed me an overdraft which was fine until DWP erroneously stopped the DLA in 2006 - claiming that I had "recovered from losing my leg"!! They took months to re-instate the DLA.

I had already spoken to HSBC at nearby branch who knew me. I was assured that as the problem was due to DWP and not of my making, they would be sympathetic to my need to extend my overdraft. However in the event this did not happen, and this had a knock-on effect of putting this account overdrawn. HSBC then proceeded to charge exorbitant bank charges (hardly being sympathetic!) and pushed the overdrawn balance up to £1,315. The unreasonable charging was split between a sole trader "business" and joint personal account.

I was at the time receiving treatment for depression, due to limb loss caused by negligence, and I wrote to HSBC requesting that it be dealt with as a fast-track charges refund claim. HSBC denied any liability and every 18 months or so they put a debt collector onto me. Apart from the HSBC left hand and right hand not knowing what they were doing when they screwed up my account, they now have had no less than FOUR DCA firms involved! The first one, Metropolitan, went quiet, as did Wescot and Clarity. All initially harassed me by phone, but all went quiet when told the history. Appointing a fourth has been noted as additional harassment. The "debt" was assigned the fourth time (to Marlin FS).

I eventually was well enough to "push back" again, and issued a MoneyClaimOnline jointly against HSBC and Marlin for the total plus interest at the 8% rate. HSBC took the matter back in house, and I discontinued the claim against Marlin.

I subsequently entered a CCJ against HSBC as they did not enter any defence to my claim - the Court had heard nothing apart from a change of address.

I have heard nothing more from HSBC and wonder what to do next. One of my friends had a dispute with a bank about 20 years ago and only got settlement when he initiated a winding-up petition! I am rather reluctant to go that far. Has any other forum member enforced a judgment against a bank?!

Cheers

What was the Particulars of Claim you used? i.e. on what basis did you make a court claim?

How much money have you spent on this claim so far?

On what date were you granted the CCJ in default against HSBC?

arthur2

Thanks. Apologies for slight delay.

I sent a summary, provided by Callcredit, of data provided to them by Marlin FS. This was followed by a brief history as in my first post above, and claimed the full amount £1315 quoted by Marlin, plus statutory interest to date.

Claim issued 27 Jan, Judgment (by default) entered 27 Feb. Amount claimed inc interest £1,859.23, Cost FEE £80 so far. Total amount of judgment £1,939.23.

Aquamania

arthur2 wrote: »

Thanks. Apologies for slight delay.

I sent a summary, provided by Callcredit, of data provided to them by Marlin FS. This was followed by a brief history as in my first post above, and claimed the full amount £1315 quoted by Marlin, plus statutory interest to date.

Claim issued 27 Jan, Judgment (by default) entered 27 Feb. Amount claimed inc interest £1,859.23, Cost FEE £80 so far. Total amount of judgment £1,939.23.

So may I ask again

Aquamania wrote: »

What was the Particulars of Claim you used? i.e. on what basis did you make a court claim?

Because I can't see in your post any claim as such, and I'd be surprised any judge could either. Please write exactly what you wrote in your PoC (leaving out any personally identifiable data such as account numbers, names, etc)


Did the judgement by default (or accompanying paperwork) not state by which date the payment should be made? It's usually a lot longer than 7 days

If the judgement was not issued until 27th Feb which was a Thursday, chances are it was not delivered to the bank until the Monday. What day did you receive your copy? Which address did you use in the claim? HSBC registered address? If so, it'll probably take a short time to reach the appropriate department ... and you first posted on the following Friday saying you've not heard anything from the bank.

arthur2

Thanks. The initial part of the claim was a summary from Marlin of what they considered they were due, roughly as in my first post, plus the actual dates and figures. This was followed by the next 3 paragraphs:

"I do not acknowledge any debt to HSBC; the matter arose solely due to HSBC's incompetent and unreasonable behaviour, saying one thing and doing another. The impression given was of helpful staff failing to control an unhelpful computer which "did its own thing". Due to ill health and disability I was unable to intervene properly until now.

The summary shows the overdraft as £1315, so I claim this as representing all the unfair bank charges, levied contrary to staff assurances that HSBC would be sympathetic. I will waive any further claim on the other account if this is settled. I also claim interest for the interim, and costs.

I told Marlin that I would take legal action against HSBC or them. I see however that HSBC has offloaded the account onto Marlin, so I have no alternative but to sue both parties jointly. Marlin has no moral responsibility for the incompetent and unreasonable HSBC attitude, so I ask the Court to rule that HSBC be responsible for the whole sum, plus my costs and Marlin's costs."

As indicated, following correspondence confirming that the matter had been passed back from Marlin to HSBC, I removed Marlin from the claim. They in turn have removed the CRA entry they made.

In entering Judgment I specified that payment should be made "immediately" as instalments or any other basis are inappropriate. The confirmation arrived on 01/03/2014. The address was the one HSBC had sent to Northampton CCBC after initial issue of claim. I gave details of an HSBC account to which payment should be sent.

Aquamania

arthur2 wrote: »

Thanks. The initial part of the claim was a summary from Marlin of what they considered they were due, roughly as in my first post, plus the actual dates and figures. This was followed by the next 3 paragraphs:

"I do not acknowledge any debt to HSBC; the matter arose solely due to HSBC's incompetent and unreasonable behaviour, saying one thing and doing another. The impression given was of helpful staff failing to control an unhelpful computer which "did its own thing". Due to ill health and disability I was unable to intervene properly until now.

The summary shows the overdraft as £1315, so I claim this as representing all the unfair bank charges, levied contrary to staff assurances that HSBC would be sympathetic. I will waive any further claim on the other account if this is settled. I also claim interest for the interim, and costs.

I told Marlin that I would take legal action against HSBC or them. I see however that HSBC has offloaded the account onto Marlin, so I have no alternative but to sue both parties jointly. Marlin has no moral responsibility for the incompetent and unreasonable HSBC attitude, so I ask the Court to rule that HSBC be responsible for the whole sum, plus my costs and Marlin's costs."

As indicated, following correspondence confirming that the matter had been passed back from Marlin to HSBC, I removed Marlin from the claim. They in turn have removed the CRA entry they made.

In entering Judgment I specified that payment should be made "immediately" as instalments or any other basis are inappropriate. The confirmation arrived on 01/03/2014. The address was the one HSBC had sent to Northampton CCBC after initial issue of claim. I gave details of an HSBC account to which payment should be sent.

Your claim appears to read more of a defence than a claim, and I don't think you can claim for a debt you don't think you owe - you just don't pay it and allow the creditor to claim against you. I think you can only claim for money that is owed to you.

However I have highlighted the part that may be considered a 'claim'

It surprises me that such a judge would even issue a judgement, even in default, as your claim appears to have no legal basis, not only because you are not owed the money (you haven't paid it) but also see the decision of the Supreme Court on this matter back in 2009.

As regards the defendant paying the judgement (which is unlikley), despite what the judgement may imply, they have a month to pay; if they do pay within the month the CCJ will not be on the register.
https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-debt/ccjs-and-your-credit-rating

If I were you I would put the £80 you have spent on this matter down to experience and give up before you waste anymore hard earned cash on what will, I fear, ultimately be a fruitless venture.

But if you want to spend more of your hard earned cash, this explains how to do so.
https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/enforce-a-judgment

What will I am sure, will ultimately occur is that, after you have spent lots more money on such enforcement action, HSBC will eventually apply to the court to have the judgement set aside and your claim struck out for the reasons I have given.

Unless you plan to be the first person to prove otherwise, they will succeed in such application.

OhReally_2

Aquamania wrote: »

As regards the defendant paying the judgement (which is unlikley), despite what the judgement may imply, they have a month to pay; if they do pay within the month the CCJ will not be on the register.
https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-debt/ccjs-and-your-credit-rating .

As I understand it, all judgements (where money is owed) actually go on the register, but if the defefendant pays the judgement in full within a month then it is deleted from the register

Now I understand that essentially means the same thing, and you may suggest I am being pedantic here.

But the reason I point this out is that I have today checked the online register at the Registry Trust (who maintain the register on behalf of the MoJ) and maybe it's me, but I can't find any judgement against HSBC Bank plc (Company Registration Number: 00014259) dated 27/02/14 or later for the amount of £1,939.23 or similar.

Now it may be that HSBC have already asked for the judgement to be set aside or struck out, but I doubt this would have happened in such a short timespan, and in any event the claimant/OP should have been advised.

OP - I would suggest you contact the Northampton CC with your case number and ask for an explanation of what has happened to your judgement and why it is not on the official register.

[Deleted User]

OhReally wrote: »

But the reason I point this out is that I have today checked the online register at the Registry Trust (who maintain the register on behalf of the MoJ) and maybe it's me, but I can't find any judgement against HSBC Bank plc (Company Registration Number: 00014259) dated 27/02/14 or later for the amount of £1,939.23 or similar.

Well done for being so thorough on behalf of the OP, but I can't help but think there is a lot of information missing (or even inaccurate) from the details provided by "arthur2"...

arthur2

A month has now passed. I am taking advice on enforcing the judgment which was granted 27/02/2014 in my favour. (The details I quoted earlier were verbatim from the actual claim; I only suppressed my details and the case number).

arthur2

Concluded, but not quite as expected...

The Court had somehow screwed up the records, and allowed HSBC to enter a late defence, setting aside the judgment in the meantime. The Court proposed mediation, but did not organize it. HSBC made an inadequate offer to settle, which I refused. They then came back with a much higher offer - almost exactly what I had claimed, so I accepted this and closed the matter. The Court muddle however meant that they kept writing to Marlin, months after I had them deleted from the case!

Apologies for not updating this earlier!

Arthur