Bank charges help

Blaze_1

Hey everyone,

Need some advise please.

I bank with nationwide and recently found out that they allow 3 refunds of charges.

I once got a charge which took me by surprise so I investigated a found out it was from a returned dd but the dd was nit set up by me which I reported and asked them to investigate as fraud!

A few months later I get a bank charge by my own doing and went in branch spoke to a lady who kindly refunded using what she said was a lifeline which we have 3.

A few months later I get another again my own mistake so I repeated the same process but was faced with a very unhappy lady who I had to fight with.

She said I had used all my lifelines but she said she put it through as bank error. After doing so she said that, that was my last as you are only allowed 3. I argued back that my first refund should not be used as a mistake as it was from fraudulent activity but she refused to listen so I gave up.

I recently forgot about a £5 standing order on my account that goes out once a week and I missed 2 weeks so I knew I was going to get a £30 charge.

I today find out that another £30 has been taken exactly a month later which I assume is because when the first charge was taken there was no funds in my account however I did not receive a letter informing there was going to be a charge or verb a date they would take.

I also noticed that the day after the charge was taken they allowed me to use my card in 2 shops, I bought some food in 2 stores each one below £2 as I thought there was £5 in my account. Is is right? Can they do this? I thought the card would decline when no enough money in the account? It has in the past!

Anyhow this is what I think this new charge is for ! However it's strange as it's £15 each, when the charge was taken it took my account £25 overdrawn for a day then adding the £4 the next day taking it to £29 should mean 3x £15?

Anyhow I'm wondering if anyone can advice if they bank shikd have declined the card payment?

She they have wrote to me to advice of the charge?

Also should I challenge the fact that my first refund was from fraud so I should have 1 left as I feel I should as it wasn't my fault also they did not investigate, they didn't give any care to it when I spoke to them!

I'm not bothered about the first £30 as that was my doing but is new £30 has really upset me!

Also I'm on benefits and not making ends meet as it is so loosing £60 is really hurting, the first I managed but this 1 now means I can't pay for food, rent etc

Any help would be appreciated

taylornj

Blaze_1 wrote: »

Anyhow this is what I think this new charge is for ! However it's strange as it's £15 each, when the charge was taken it took my account £25 overdrawn for a day then adding the £4 the next day taking it to £29 should mean 3x £15?

£15 charge could be for insufficent cleared funds. The account balance will show both total and cleared funds, you need about 3 working days from paying in a cheque to it clearing. You can only pay out from the funds that have actually cleared.

What might of happend is the shops, and the way cards works. Shops can set whats called a floor limit on transactions, any transactions below this limit do not get checked with the bank, larger transactions will be checked.

That means the payments will not appear on the card, until the shop runs overnight tasks to request the payments, for each transaction during the day, some will be rejected for insufficent funds at this point, these might be resent the following day. Payments may not show up on your card sometimes for days afterwards. The floor limits set by the shop are their view of an acceptable loss, vs cost of fully processing every transaction.

If the account balance is very close to being overdrawn, you have to be very careful about what hasn't been processed through the systems yet. Your card being rejected, is not a means for checking your account is empty, it's not reliable.

[Deleted User]

I think you need to be managing your account far more carefully. Far from having three "lifelines" allowed to be refunded to you, the Bank don't have to refund you anything.
If you continue to have "fights" with banking staff over your own failures to operate your account, then you can expect the Bank to refuse to serve you at all.

Nothing in your post indicates that the Bank have behaved at all improperly. I'm certain they will have informed you of impending charges as part of your monthly statement.
If I were you I'd ask your Bank to withdraw any kind of overdraft facility on your account and I'm sure they can arrange for your card to be declined if you have no funds. I'd also ensure that your card is not "contactless"
You should never assume that you have funds in your account without checking properly first. If you can't check, then don't present your card as payment.

Request the Bank give you a list of any regular direct debits or standing orders and look at this frequently so you don't "forget".

Sorry if this may not be what you want to hear..

[Deleted User]

taylornj wrote: »

Shops can set whats called a floor limit on transactions, any transactions below this limit do not get checked with the bank, larger transactions will be checked.

That's actually fairly unusual these days, as chip n PIN machines need to be in touch with the Bank constantly

taylornj wrote: »

If the account balance is very close to being overdrawn, you have to be very careful about what hasn't been processed through the systems yet. Your card being rejected, is not a means for checking your account is empty, it's not reliable.

Yes, probably better to attempt to draw from a cash machine (though even this is not foolproof for similar reasons).

dunstonh

That's actually fairly unusual these days, as chip n PIN machines need to be in touch with the Bank constantly

Whilst they check the validity of the card, they dont all check for cleared funds. Floor limits still exist.

[Deleted User]

dunstonh wrote: »

Floor limits still exist.

Perhaps in some smaller, owner-operated, premises I concede. All of the big Supermarkets and High Street stores get authorisation for even small transactions.

Regardless, it's still unwise to use a card transaction when very near being overdrawn. This is especially true if no account of regular outgoings (like weekly standing orders) is being taken.

The OP would probably be better posting about his problems on the "Budgeting and Bank Accounts" sub-forum;
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20

Post over there, Blaze_1 and you'll get more informed advice about keeping to a tight budget and managing your bank account.

Blaze_1

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

I think you need to be managing your account far more carefully. Far from having three "lifelines" allowed to be refunded to you, the Bank don't have to refund you anything.
If you continue to have "fights" with banking staff over your own failures to operate your account, then you can expect the Bank to refuse to serve you at all.

Nothing in your post indicates that the Bank have behaved at all improperly. I'm certain they will have informed you of impending charges as part of your monthly statement.
If I were you I'd ask your Bank to withdraw any kind of overdraft facility on your account and I'm sure they can arrange for your card to be declined if you have no funds. I'd also ensure that your card is not "contactless"
You should never assume that you have funds in your account without checking properly first. If you can't check, then don't present your card as payment.

Request the Bank give you a list of any regular direct debits or standing orders and look at this frequently so you don't "forget".

Sorry if this may not be what you want to hear..

I have not explained myself correctly!

I mean regardless of the fact I need to keep a better eye on my account it still should not have charged by the extra £15 for the shop payments as I paid for them goods before the bank charge came out and there was enough cash in my account.

So on the 13th I had £4 in my account, I spent £3.50 making my balance £0.50 not negative.

On the 14th they took £30 for charges which should have taken me to -£29.50.

However for some reason the 2 shop payments was debited on that day instead of the correct day!

So my statement shows the 14th balance as -£26 then next 2 lines show the 2 shop transactions making the balance -£29.50!

So with this, it has created 2 separate debits in negative thus creating 2 separate £15 charges! However I'm not sure why it's not £45 unless they have not charged for the fee not being paid on that day as the fees I'd say "payment fee" when the original 2 £15 charges showed as "unpaid standing order fee" so logic would say the new £30 charge is for the 2 shop debits!

So this leads me to the conclusion that if I didn't use my card that day I would not have received this new £30 charge. Also I remember having a charge in the past being taken out and it not being paid for 5 days and I didn't received a further charge and when I went into branch the lady told me that they allow a few days for the account to balance unless new transactions are added which would create a new charge for that instance!

My argument is, regardless if the payment didn't leave my account until the day after purchase the payment charge/date should have been put against the balance of the 13th?

I also feel I have been informed of this new method! I have never received a letter informing me that payments made on a certain day may not be debited for a further few days nor does any of the retailers that now use this method warn of doing so, which is wrong and they should have an obligation to inform there customers that there payment won't be taken that day so to be aware that you need to ensure funds are available for x amount of days! I know telling each customers is impractical so a simple sign on the till would service!

Also another point, in the past when I have paid for goods using my card but th payment was not taken straight away it was always moved from my available balance so it couldn't be taken out or spent again!

Another thought I have if I am told I am wrong and to just deal with it, then this should mean that I can use my £2 balance over and over again on that day? Regardless if they will request it all back but I bet my life on it that this wouldn't happen and they would decline the payment!

Another point that upsets me and concerns me is, what if a day comes where I need to prove/provide evidence of a transaction on a certain day for let's say fraud investigation and find out that the transaction I did on that day, the one that is the only way of proving whatever it is that it's needed is not showing on that day but a few days later!?

I have always trusted my transaction history to be kept true and trusted my bank to do this so now I find out that this is not always the case! If I use my card on the 13th of January I expect that, that transaction shows on my statement on that day! Not a few days later!

You say I need to keep better control/eye on my account but when you use your card several times a day for small purchases it's not that easy! And not noticing that 1 or 2 of theses £1-2 debits not being taken is an easy thing to do & I bet the % of the population do the same. The only ones who would notice are the ones who clearly budget to the penny! Also it makes it much more difficult when you have monies being paid in regularly that you do not know the exact amount due to it being wages that have tax taken out etc.

Not everyone has time or even access to internet banking to keep a detailed eye on things. Just like myself! I can't afford the latest computer phone let alone internet so I have to do it the old fashion way most of the times by using the cash machine which only shows a snippet, so if it says I have £100 in my account that's what I take as true as I don't have dd on my account and only use the account by taking cash out or using my card on chip & pin so I don't tend to keep a book in my pocket writing down each purchase so rely on what the machine says my balance is and if a shop decides to not take the cash when I paid then that's there fault not mine! I did not sign a contract with them to allow them to give me credit, which is what they are doing by not taking the cash then and there, surly if they don't take it on the day of purchase they loose any right it claim that money?

If it was the other way round they would soon take it straight back off us!

Anyways I'm going way off track here so I'm going to stop ranting, please let me know your thoughts and if you think I should fight this latest charge as I truly believe that I should not be charged for spending £4 on my card on the day it was there and then them transactions being added the day after like I never used my card the day before!

Blaze_1

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

Perhaps in some smaller, owner-operated, premises I concede. All of the big Supermarkets and High Street stores get authorisation for even small transactions.

Regardless, it's still unwise to use a card transaction when very near being overdrawn. This is especially true if no account of regular outgoings (like weekly standing orders) is being taken.

The OP would probably be better posting about his problems on the "Budgeting and Bank Accounts" sub-forum;
[

Post over there, Blaze_1 and you'll get more informed advice about keeping to a tight budget and managing your bank account.

Also like Iv said, I don't have regular outgoings at all, I had the little standing order which caused the first charge so I cancelled it. So now the only outgoings are when I take cash out or use my card.

When I spent the £4 I knew for fact that, that £4 was clear and not going to be taken for an earlier purchase from a store that operates this stupid new system!

Although I knew I had the £30 charge coming out still doesn't change the fact that on the day I had cleared funds. If the funds was taken that day the day I bought the goods I would not have received this £30 charge as the amount you go overdrawn by is irrelevant as it's a flat £15 fee!

If I didn't buy them goods it would have meant I would have been £26 overdrawn & not been charged again if no more transactions appeared!

So basically I have been charged £15 for each purchase I made on the day I was in credit because someone decided not to take the cash out of my account until the next day! Which is nit my fault! I paid the shop that day and I expect them to take it that day and if not for them it the bank to mark that transaction against the true day if purchase and the balance that day!

-taff

I would do as Moneyineptitude suggests and go to the budgeting forum.
If you are ordering your finances that tightly, then you need some help.
Three times means it's a pattern, you are not taking into account money that's owed from your account.
I don't rely on what my bank says, I keep a separate accounts sheet where I add all of my outgoings so I know exactly how much I have in the bank, wothout relying on a system that doesn't update immediately.

101problems

Sorry I know this to be incorrect with an offline debit card my 3 local tesco's all have a floor limit of £30 and scarily this includes cashback!!

101problems

"Another thought I have if I am told I am wrong and to just deal with it, then this should mean that I can use my £2 balance over and over again on that day? Regardless if they will request it all back but I bet my life on it that this wouldn't happen and they would decline the payment!"

Actually yes you could but I really wouldn't recommend it if your bank charges a paid item fee, that would be quite a shock when your statement comes in.
Your point about the order of transactions is more than valid however your logic is flawed, your bank pre-notified you of the fees so in essence they have done the exact same as you did at the till you agreed to pay on demand, your bank simply done the same just way before the merchant did, best advice is to read your statements!