court action

victorias_dad

I have been threatened with court action over a ticket I received at the peel centre I thought I had entered the registration number but in fact missed out a letter my question is if court papers arrive do you get to have your say or is it straight to court to argue your case.
The car is a motability car and the carer put the reg in wrong the question regarding who the driver was has not been raised yet.

Redx

you should have received an NTK in the post for it (or the keeper should have)

what date was the original date of this "contravention" ?

have you read this https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822 ??

victorias_dad

The of the original ticket was 17/11/13 we did write back and explain the about the incident and they replied saying that they wanted £10 for admin costs with personal things happening I forgot about this and now have the letter demanding £100 or court.
Am I correct in thinking that you have the right to dispute the case once you get court papers before going to court. I feel that as I had bought a ticket the company has not lost revenue by my error.

Redx

they havent apart from all the admin , hence the £10 charge they asked you to pay

this was all so easy when it all started and you really have made this difficult when it should not have been

it also depends on how the first appeal was worded too, ie:- as RK or as driver

so if you had said I put the details in incorrectly etc then you may have outed the driver

if you had said that "somebody" had out the details in incorrectly and that somebody was not the driver then you could reset the clock by naming the driver and starting again

if or when EXCEL issue court papers or an LBC you can dispute it then , in which case it may never get to court

all I can say is you do not appear to have played this game according to the rules shown in here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822 which means you have made an easy case hard and difficult to advise you about due to you having "forgotten" about it

it is true that if you still have this ticket or can prove the reg number entered to be incorrect, the fact is that the landowner (PEEL HOLDINGS) made no loss , but EXCEL will try to get £100 out of you for breaching their "rules2 , not for what the landowner has lost

so it all becomes an argument over gpeol, locus standi etc , not necessarily about the incorrect reg number entered

you would think they would be foolhardy to go to court over this, because it can be argued that their systems should be more robust in preventing these issues in the first place

Coupon-mad

victorias_dad wrote: »

I have been threatened with court action over a ticket I received at the peel centre I thought I had entered the registration number but in fact missed out a letter my question is if court papers arrive do you get to have your say or is it straight to court to argue your case.
The car is a motability car and the carer put the reg in wrong the question regarding who the driver was has not been raised yet.

Do you mean Excel themselves have sent a Letter before Court Claim? If so then you acknowledge it formally, then send a response as explained in the sticky thread 'LBCCC fightback' which is a link in Crabman's parking forum sticky thread. There is a procedure to follow re formal response.

Even if the letter is only from a debt collector I would be writing to Excel anyway and stating that the only options available to them were to accept or reject your appeal (not reduce the charge and somehow put the case on hold then close the appeal without your knowledge). So, if they have rejected your appeal after all this time they need to send you a POPLA code, not a debt collector threat.

victorias_dad

The identity of the driver has not been established only that the keepers carer entered the details into the car park machine incorrectly, the letter that has been received is the usual we may take court action if it is not paid, so all I was asking if court papers were to arrive did you get he opportunity to dispute the claim before actually getting to the court stage and what would happen if it did go to court and the keeper just said sorry I wasn't driving?

Redx

yes you can dispute it at the LBC stage and even if court papers arrive

if the POFA 2012 was adhered to then the keeper can be held liable under POFA 2012 , even if the keeper is not driving

Coupon-mad

victorias_dad wrote: »

The identity of the driver has not been established only that the keepers carer entered the details into the car park machine incorrectly, the letter that has been received is the usual we may take court action if it is not paid, so all I was asking if court papers were to arrive did you get he opportunity to dispute the claim before actually getting to the court stage

No, I have already said, this is your chance to dispute before court if the letter came from Excel.

Please re-read the advice in my previous post above. You haven't even said whether the letter was from Excel or a debt collector - despite me asking who sent it, and pointing out the difference in approach, depending upon the sender.

victorias_dad wrote: »

what would happen if it did go to court and the keeper just said sorry I wasn't driving?

The keeper would lose - that is daft and naive (sorry) because it's no longer a defence - unless the keeper did some homework and knew how to argue that Excel had somehow not followed the strict requirements of POFA2012 which potentially gives Excel 'keeper liability' where the driver hasn't been named before court proceeding start (i.e. now)! Why would anyone wait for court papers when now is the chance to resolve it and you are on a forum which tells you how already.

Easy solution if the keeper was not the driver: Name the driver then - reset the clock.

We have to assume you've read the sticky thread which tells you all of this? Can't type it all out on a case by case basis when the advice is already here in the NEWBIES sticky thread - and the Peel Centre gets mentioned every day already.

victorias_dad

Now if this gets your back up then please feel free to ignore I honestly wont be offended, you seem to be consumed with popla I on the over hand am willing to go to court and fight my corner excel are claiming £100 for not having a valid ticket but could I actually buy an invalid ticket if I have inadvertently missed a letter of the ticket they are claiming a breach of contract can they charge a penalty of £100 for such a breach, do excel own the land. I would rather see them loose in court than run to popla but then that's me.

Coupon-mad

OK so ignore them then and research what we have by way of info on this forum about defending court claims (see the NEWBIES thread, the bit about 'small claims').

Redx

victorias_dad wrote: »

Now if this gets your back up then please feel free to ignore I honestly wont be offended, you seem to be consumed with popla I on the over hand am willing to go to court and fight my corner excel are claiming £100 for not having a valid ticket but could I actually buy an invalid ticket if I have inadvertently missed a letter of the ticket they are claiming a breach of contract can they charge a penalty of £100 for such a breach, do excel own the land. I would rather see them loose in court than run to popla but then that's me.

popla gives people the easy way out and from a court point of view, it goes against you if some form of ADR could have been used and wasnt prior to the court case, so detrimental to your case if a judge asked why it was before him or her whereas it could have been sorted out by an ADR like POPLA and sometimes a judge can rule that it should go to ADR etc - the point here being you as defendant should make reasonable steps to avoid the court case happening

PEEL HOLDINGS own the Peel Centre land which I told you in my second reply

I do not believe that Excel own any land that they act as agents on, nor V,C,S, either (same umbrella company)

of cpurse you can buy an invalid ticket and we have already had maybe a dozen or more people that have done so on these forums, some used swear words, some use the wrong reg number , some transpose letters or numbers , its extremely easy to get it wrong or deliberately put in incorrect details

the point is that the anpr checks you in and out, and a check is made for the reg number to see if a ticket was bought, if not they issue an automatic postal NTK to the keeper

I have only posted most of the above details in another thread about a month ago about the Peel centre and it features on here every week

a simple forum search using the search word PEEL would bring up dozens of threads about it, including many I have participated in

if you want to go to court, good luck , because it may well happen in this case , but at least try to know the facts before you go, also be prepared to be shot down if you havent tried any ADR prior to a court appearance

bear in mind only a court can decide what the levels of the figures are or can be , the £100 is a guideline issued by the club known as the BPA, whereas the OFT said it was about £12 , there is no "law" on this, which is why court cases decide it