Possible to change leasehold wording before purchase?

warmer_2

Hi, we've been advised that we can't really change what is in the leasehold agreement, like it or lump it was the advice given.

However some of the terms mean that we would be breach of the lease straight away, for example:

no pets
no playing an instrument or singing
no alterations, non-structual, to the internals without prior written consent
only carpet (the place already has floorboards and this is a new lease they are creating)
don't move service (we can't don't remove, but not to move?)

We got clauses like this removed from our rental lease why can't we remove them for one that is 125 years long and worth hundreds of thousands of pounds!

ognum

warmer wrote: »

Hi, we've been advised that we can't really change what is in the leasehold agreement, like it or lump it was the advice given.

However some of the terms mean that we would be breach of the lease straight away, for example:

no pets
no playing an instrument or singing
no alterations, non-structual, to the internals without prior written consent
only carpet (the place already has floorboards and this is a new lease they are creating)
don't move service (we can't don't remove, but not to move?)

We got clauses like this removed from our rental lease why can't we remove them for one that is 125 years long and worth hundreds of thousands of pounds!

Are you buying the property from the freeholder or from another leaseholder?

If you are buying from a leaseholder there is nothing that they can do to vary the lease, you would have to refer to the freeholder and as they are not profiting from the sale I doubt they will vary the lease.

If you are buying from the freeholder then it is possible they will slightly adjust a lease but they need to keep uniform characteristics on all the leases in the building. They are very very unlikely to change your lease to allow pets and keep everyone else's lease as no pets.

I have read many leases and they appear to come in generally two types. the ones that say you can hardly breathe in the property and the ones that are a few pages and just require that you give access for repairs to the freeholder, pay the ground rent and live your life.

I did negotiate with a freeholder who wanted to charge for every new AST that was taken and as a BTLer this was ridiculous, the freeholder did agree to remove that for me but wanted it reinstated for any other sale. I withdrew from this sale due to the prohibitive lease.

Beware of these leases where you can't do anything, they also tend to have escalating ground rents which could end up prohibitively expensive in the long term.

I do think it would be good if you could read a lease before offer and having to go down the legal route!

warmer_2

Thanks, it's a new lease being created on the day of purchase from the freeholder.

They already have the ground rent at £500 which is very high (150 year old building with 4 flats in, SE London) and the service charge is a joke.

Basically the lease is more restrictive than a rental lease and we have to ask permission (and pay the 'costs' involved) to do anything, we were days away from exchanging, our solicitor sent the lease in the post without telling us and it never arrived, we asked them many many times for this information and they have only just provided it to us, very annoyed, really don't want to pull out but don't see that we can go through, knowing we will breach the leasehold clauses on signing seems ridiculous.

brenda10

warmer wrote: »

thanks, it's a new lease being created on the day of purchase from the freeholder.

They already have the ground rent at £500 which is very high (150 year old building with 4 flats in, se london) and the service charge is a joke.

Basically the lease is more restrictive than a rental lease and we have to ask permission (and pay the 'costs' involved) to do anything, we were days away from exchanging, our solicitor sent the lease in the post without telling us and it never arrived, we asked them many many times for this information and they have only just provided it to us, very annoyed, really don't want to pull out but don't see that we can go through, knowing we will breach the leasehold clauses on signing seems ridiculous.

stay clear of leasehold properties=nightmare

G_M

warmer wrote: »

no pets
no playing an instrument or singing
no alterations, non-structual, to the internals without prior written consent
only carpet (the place already has floorboards and this is a new lease they are creating)
don't move service (we can't don't remove, but not to move?)
!

All of these (except the last which I don't understand) are fairly common in blocks of flats, and are there to protect the interests of other leaseholders.
Pets, noise, footsteps on wooden floors etc can all potentially annoy neighbours so are reasonable, and common, prohibitions.

There are regular threads on this forum from flat owners asking what they can do about the noise their neighbours make......

jamesperrett

G_M wrote: »

There are regular threads on this forum from flat owners asking what they can do about the noise their neighbours make......

If it is a newly built or newly converted flat then this should be much improved compared to older flats - assuming it actually complies with current building regs. It certainly seems a very onerous lease and some parts, especially the bit about services, could be unenforceable.

kingstreet

brenda10 wrote: »

stay clear of leasehold properties=nightmare

Very difficult if you are looking for a flat.

AdrianC

You haven't exchanged yet? Good. Count your lucky stars that you found out in time. This is clearly not the right property for you. Pull out of the sale now, and accept that you've learnt an expensive lesson.

Was "your" solicitor recommended by the developer, by any chance?

Oh, and the freeholder's lease is the loosest this property is ever going to get - if you rented it, the tenancy would have to include all of those things, too.

ognum

brenda10 wrote: »

stay clear of leasehold properties=nightmare

Interesting and I would have said that but I do own leasehold flats that are not.

As I have said previously you do need to read the lease very carefully, don't rely on your solicitor to do it.

I have a property with a 999year lease which has a management group from owners and residents that is as good as owning a house.

I have another with a lease with very basic conditions and would reject any where the leases are difficult.

Some people cannot afford freehold property in the area they want to live and the only way is leasehold, just ask for the lease very early on in discussions and READ IT!

warmer_2

It seems madness that these leases can't be altered yet the wording in any other legal contract would be laughed at not signed before changed.

If you take the leasehold contract to the letter you:

Can't ever pick up your acoustic guitar or sing along to the radio - it does not say excessive noise just says 'you can't sing or play an instrument'

Can't put a picture hook on the wall without prior written consent

Can only have a pet of any kind (hamster or mouse) with prior written consent and the landlord can withdraw this consent without reason at any time.

If this was a business contract worded in such a way to guarantee that you would breach the terms you would have red marker pen all over it and laugh at them if they said they wouldn't change it.

Believe me if we could go for a freehold place we would.

warmer_2

ognum wrote: »

Some people cannot afford freehold property in the area they want to live and the only way is leasehold, just ask for the lease very early on in discussions and READ IT!

I agree, we are in a position though now that if we pull out we a) have no place to live and b) have to buy in a market that has gone up by £50K for a two bed flat which we can't afford to do

WE had requested the lease details for weeks and only just got them, after delays and the lost post.