Private Parking Charge at University - advice

ParkingFury

Hi all,

Firstly, thanks to all those contributors who maintance and, er, contribute to this forum - it has been an education for me I can tell you.
Anyhow, I have a bit of a question that I would really appreciate some advice on.

I recently recieved a parking ticket (on screen) for parking on the drive of a "house" that has been turned into offices that my wife works in, attached to a university (not on british parking approved operators website). The ticket was issued by the university itself

The fine is for £50 with reasons stating failure to follow parking instructions from car parkattendants (there were none) and not showing parking permit. The permit issue is true (although the reason is that I swapped cars with my wife to take her to an antenatal class!)

The following are also true:
There was no sign saying that parking enforcement was in place other than a sign that was fallen down and not visible
My wife has an heard through word of mouth that visitors may park there
She parks there often as do others, without a permit (this is the first time she has ever seen anyone get a ticket)

Reading your advice would suggest to wait for a NTK and then I guess call into question whether any contract was made, failing that call into question the losses experienced and claim that the £50 is infact a penalty, rather than liquidated damages (although with nothing stating any of this how would I know?)

Could they claim trespass? What would that involve?

Given how administratively poor the university is I would expect them to potentially !!!! up the NTK dates, but they do state there would be additional costs involved if they had to contact the DVLA

Does anyone know what these costs would be?
Can they even contact the DVLA as they are not approved operators?

Your help would be dearly appreciated - I have a very stressed heavily pregnant wife who would also be very appreciative!

Many thanks
ParkingFury

ColliesCarer

Hi ParkingFury,
Seems to me you have already found out all you need to know by reading the NEWBIES thread.

They have issued a screen ticket to an unknown driver. Check the Newbies thread about the rare occasions these should be responded to and even then only as Keeper.

I think you'll find the advice that applies to you is to Wait for the NtK.
If you get an NtK posted to your home address then appeal it as the keeper following the advice on here.

If they are not authorised to access your details from the DVLA - then you will hear nothing further because they do not have the drivers details. and will not have been able to get the keeper's details.

Stop worrying about any additional costs because you will pay nothing anyway if you follow the advice.

Coupon-mad

Losses for trespass are very limited - moneywise, in terms of what can be claimed which must be 'damages' - and we haven't seen a ticket for trespass in years (except as alleged by a one-off firm called Proserve but that's a long story!).

You say:

'The ticket was issued by the university itself'...

All the more reason to wait then - I have had 2 windscreen tickets in the past year which were never followed up with letters and this could easily be like those. Only the landowner/occupier, their solicitor, or an AOS member PPC could get the DVLA data to enable them to write to you. Now of course the Uni 'could' (but will they, bearing in mind you said 'given how administratively poor the university is'!).

And even if they do get the keeper's data, then they have the insurmountable hurdles of not being in any position to issue POFA2012 compliant documents (because they won't have them in their repertoire, we've NEVER seen a landholder attempt a NTK) and not knowing who was driving. Guessing or hearsay about staff members doesn't count!

So...wait and see.

If you do get a letter then the keeper sends a version of the template in the NEWBIES thread (a shorter version, amended to remove stuff about 'being a member of an ATA' and maybe not threatening to charge them for your time...). The keeper would mainly be saying 'the charge isn't a GPEOL and you haven't complied with Schedule 4 of POFA2012 - so good luck with that, seeing as you've written to the keeper months later and did not ID the driver on the day.'

What a driver must not do is get caught parking the car and then challenged in person by an operative who wants ID and takes a pic (then they would know who the driver was and would be in a stronger position if they wanted to take it further). That happened in a Soton Uni case on pepipoo where they asked the lad for his student card and he showed them...ooops! Pretty sure he still waited to see what letters might arrive, as it was still obviously not a GPEOL so not recoverable.

Half_way

Universitys, are one of those places that believe they can actually fine people, can you dig out the parking policy at all?
does it mention fines/penaltys deterrents etc etc? if it does its a good thing.

Also who issued the parking ticket, and who is it telling you to pay?

Coupon-mad

No, they can't fine people. Only railway car parks under bylaws would fall within that bracket, and maybe Airport roads/car parks if covered with bylaws.

ParkingFury

OK,

Not that I don't respect your wisdom, and if it had been down to me I would have gone the route you suggested, but my partner wanted a resolution quickly, so I wrote to them anonymously as the registered keeper of the car using an amended version of the template, stating my reasons (it was quite militant and may have angered them enough to try and take revenge in some way), but gave them an email to respond to. I also noted that I was a guest to the uni and that I had been told I could park there (by my partner). I parked there and we took their car to a hospital appointment

The problem is that my partner works at the uni and now the parking services are coming round and asking questions as to who snactioned the parking, and generally harassing people.

Whilst legally we know they don't have a leg to stand on, the parking guys are treating this like some sort of crime. My partner is extremely upset about coleagues being dragged into this and is concerned that his/her (just trying to keep this anonymous) boss will be being brought in to this.

Again, legally one could make all sorts of cases, eg harrassment or bullying etc but this isn't now really about the strict legal situation

Here is what they have on their website:

Parking Offences

Contravention of the regulations will occur in the following situations:

• Failure to display a current car parking permit
  
• Causing an unnecessary obstruction
  
• Parking on double yellow lines or in a reserved or restricted area
  
• Parking in a disabled bay without an appropriate permit or in an access route
  
• Parking overnight on academic sites without permission from the Campus Parking Manager
  
• Parking in an unmarked area of a designated car park
  
• Failure to conform to traffic signs and notices
  
• Failure to conform to pay and display notices
  
• Failure to follow parking instructions from Car Park Attendants and Security Officers
  
• Failure to park in or wholly within a marked bay

10. Penalties

Persons who breach these Regulations may be given a penalty charge notice (PCN) sum of £50, or £75 for a serious offence. The PCN must be paid within twenty working days from the date of the PCN being issued. A discount of £25, however, is given on PCNs paid within ten working days of the PCN being issued. Holders of parking permits who park vehicles in spaces reserved and marked for the use of disabled persons may have their permits summarily withdrawn at the discretion of the Director of Estates and Facilities. In such circumstances, a pro-rata reimbursement of the charge made for the permit may be considered by the University.

The University reserves the right to have removed any Motor Vehicle parked on University Premises which is in contravention of the Regulations. The University has the right to recover from any person who breaches these Regulations legal or administrative costs incurred by the University in addition to any PCN imposed under the Regulations. Nothing in the Regulations shall in any way inhibit or restrict the University’s other legal remedies against persons who breach these Regulations.

11. Appeals Procedure

The grounds for a penalty fine will be clearly stated on a ticket attached to the relevant vehicle. Appeals may be made on the basis that the relevant grounds stated on the penalty PCN can be demonstrated to be materially incorrect or inaccurate or if exceptional circumstances were prevailing at the time of the offence. Appeals must be made within ten working days after the issue of the ticket to the Car Parking Manager who will consider appeals against PCNs. The Car Parking Manager has the power to waive the PCN, reduce the level of a PCN, or confirm a PCN. If the PCN is confirmed, it must be paid within twenty days of receiving confirmation of the PCN.In the event that the appellant is dissatisfied with the Car Parking Manager's findings, a further appeal may be made to the University Transport Manager. If the PCN is confirmed, it must be paid within twenty days of receiving confirmation of the PCN.

12. Failure to Pay a Fine

In the event of a member of Staff breaching these Regulations and failing to pay a PCN properly imposed or to reimburse the University's expenses that sum or sums will be deducted from that person's salary. In the event of a Student breaching these Regulations and failing to pay a PCN properly imposed or to reimburse the University's expenses, then the University will treat the sums or sums involved as any other debt to the University thereby preventing the student obtaining any University qualification whatsoever until such time as the debt is discharged in accordance with the provisions of Ordinances. Any Contractor with outstanding PCNs incurred pursuant to these Regulations will be invoiced and/or may have the outstanding fees offset against payments otherwise due by the University to the Contractor.

Note the section re failure to pay a fine - they will come after the staff member and take it from salary.

Its all getting a bit ugly. Although they have no right to do so, this could all get mixed up with their employer.

I'm starting to think that perhaps I should just pay it. £25 to make this go away, whilst totally unfair may just need to happen

Guys_Dad

Pay if you want to - no skin off our noses!

We have supplied a simple guide to help you. You may want to add that they have no power to levy penalties and perhaps their University Law professors might be enlisted to point out all the things wrong with their notice.

But stick to the fact that it was NOT your partner who contravened and that it was you (because of her employment there).

Half_way

From the above i take it you were driving and you are not an employee of the univeristy.

If so then that would be useful.
As for this section

12. Failure to Pay a Fine

In the event of a member of Staff breaching these Regulations and failing to pay a PCN properly imposed or to reimburse the University's expenses that sum or sums will be deducted from that person's salary. In the event of a Student breaching these Regulations and failing to pay a PCN properly imposed or to reimburse the University's expenses, then the University will treat the sums or sums involved as any other debt to the University thereby preventing the student obtaining any University qualification whatsoever until such time as the debt is discharged in accordance with the provisions of Ordinances. Any Contractor with outstanding PCNs incurred pursuant to these Regulations will be invoiced and/or may have the outstanding fees offset against payments otherwise due by the University to the Contractor.

Theres so much wrong there it would be hard to find a place to start, the reason why I asked if it mentioned fines/penalties etc is that private companies and organisations ( such as the uni) do not have the authority to issue such things so all is good for now.

However if your wife does drive the car, or is linked to it at any point there they may try and make an unlawful deduction from her wages/pay if that happened then you may have a fight to get it back and it could also cause her issues at work.

It may be best to tell the university that you were driving at the time, and you parked, as their parking policy states its a penalty then you should be clear, just to check whats the wording on the ticket and to whom should payment be made? ( not that you will be paying a penny of it ) one quick question before we continue, any mention of by laws? no? good...

you could try this letter
Re Peanlty charge notice ####
On the <Date> I visited the university and parked in what i beleived to be a clear space, however someone from the univeristy parking enforcement team placed a penalty charge notice on my vehicle.
I am disputing the fact that you believe me to owe you money on the following grounds:
The sum demanded is not a genuine pre estimate of loss caused by parking
The signage fails to meet standards as laid out by the parking industrys own trade association the British parking Association.
By virtue of the Universistys own policys the charge is a penalty, and as such is unlawful, as the university does not have the statutory authority to issue fines or penalties, in fact it has no authority at all in this respect.

and as such any action to obtain this unlawful fine/penalty must now come to an imediate halt, failiure to comply may result in action being taken against the university and or its agents for harassment should it/they chose to continue.

further more as this is clearly an unlawful fine, any additional charges made to contractors are unlawful as are any deductions taken from staff wages, or charges made to students under these false and possibly fraudulent mis represntations, and I trust that you will be taking immediate action to reimburse any one who has been unlawfully charged, as well as taking action to ensure that this never happens again.