Civil Servant for 23+ years yet no pension?

gadgetmind

amandajc wrote: »

get more than a little p***ed off at the continual flak that comes our way.

Pretty much everyone here has made it clear that while the public sector pension system is broken, they don't blame those working in this sector for making hay while the sun shines.

Your graceful acceptance that the system is changing because it must change does you proud.

BTW, I do a lot of business with a *private* company that provides a lot of free internet access for public spaces as a normal part of CSR, which is far more widespread than many people recognise.

Tromking

atush wrote: »

I never said that.

Public service workers are just that. We don't discriminate between who works for the NHS and Who works for the CS. And I don't have a UK DB public sector pension myself.

I don't begrudge those who do, either. But we don't like it much when some come spouting political cr*p either.

I wasn't aware of being political, in this country public sector pension reform has been around for years and now parties of all colours have engaged in it and there is a broad consensus that reform was needed .It isn't political for a humble civil servant like me who is directly effected by the changes to express an opinion surely? Is that political?
In this country there is a distinct group of workers who work for the Civil Service and those who might be described as civil servants but might work for the NHS or the Police etc.
So when you took umbrage to my comments re. Civil Service Desk Johnny`s in the UK, there was no need for an American healthcare worker to take offence. Jeez!:)

bigadaj

gadgetmind wrote: »

They did calculate future liabilities, but using statistics that didn't allow for "the perfect storm".

I've actually put some work in over recent years so that I have a reasonable grasp of capital ratios, yield curves, risk weighted assets, and a whole slew of other stuff that would previously have bored me stupid. It must be said that running a bank can't be easy, but it's probably not as hard as they made it look.

Basel III and predecessors are now trying to ensure that financial institutions have enough Tier 1 Capital (basically loss adsorbing capital) that they can weather such storms in the future without needing state support. However, even those banks that did need support are now having this unwound without massive costs to the taxpayer, which is more than can be said of the support that certain sovereign nations needed (and will need).

It's because sovereign nations can get themselves into such a mess that we need to ensure that the UK keeps spending (both current and future liabilities) under tight control.

Maybe they listened to brown and believed the no more boom and bust hype.

I don't have your faith in the banks or regulators unfortunately. The move away from glass stiegel provided the excuse that everyone needed to mis price risk and allow people to fill their boots with short term bonuses and leave the liabilities with long term shareholders or ultimately the public purse.

It's not too difficult to align risk and reward, employ people on teh basis of deferred bonuses paid in shares and many of the crisi problems would be solved.

I can't agree that the banks are being put back ona an even keel with no pain, we've had teh longest recession since the thirties, emergency interest rates to allow balance sheets to be rebuilt, paid for by pensioners and savers, to allow banks margins to be boosted to try and make them commercially viable businesses again.

Tromking

gadgetmind wrote: »

Pretty much everyone here has made it clear that while the public sector pension system is broken, they don't blame those working in this sector for making hay while the sun shines.

...or perhaps just a reasonable expectation that the terms and conditions they signed up to are honoured for the duration of their public sector careers is another slant to the argument.:)

alongtimetogoyet

amandajc wrote: »

but get more than a little p***ed off at the continual flak that comes our way.

Generally from those that have never worked in the public sector and base their opinion on what is reported in the press:T

atush

Tromking wrote: »

I wasn't aware of being political, in this country public sector pension reform has been around for years and now parties of all colours have engaged in it and there is a broad consensus that reform was needed .It isn't political for a humble civil servant like me who is directly effected by the changes to express an opinion surely? Is that political?
In this country there is a distinct group of workers who work for the Civil Service and those who might be described as civil servants but might work for the NHS or the Police etc.
So when you took umbrage to my comments re. Civil Service Desk Johnny`s in the UK, there was no need for an American healthcare worker to take offence. Jeez!:)

There was every reason. Because you consider yourself above and beyond the rest of the public sector.

I was in the US civil service, and I never considered myself better, because I wasn't. I am continually amazed at the behavior of those who think they are entitled.

I have been in the private sector here and never thought I was entitled either. Jonny Desk jobs is just so offensive.

atush

alongtimetogoyet wrote: »

Generally from those that have never worked in the public sector and base their opinion on what is reported in the press:T

No flack from me from what is in the press, only from those here who fail to understand what their benefits are worth, that their salaries are no longer behind the Private sector, and those who whinge about their lot (and even strike).

We/I don't begrudge you your pensions, but work contracts under law can and are changed. All the time in the private sector, an now finally in the public.

Generally, everything you have to date is there. That doesn't change. What changes is what happens going forwards. That is normal in employment law so why the public sector doesn't think it applies to them is quite frankly beyond belief.

Nothing that is written when you join a job t 21 is written in stone for perpetuity. But what you have accrued remains up until any date in future when changes are made.

gadgetmind

Tromking wrote: »

a reasonable expectation that the terms and conditions they signed up to are honoured for the duration of their public sector careers

That's an utterly unreasonable, unsustainable, and unaffordable expectation.

If you feel that terms have changed such that you'd be better off elsewhere, perhaps even in the private sector, then resign and apply for jobs.

Simple!

Tromking

atush wrote: »

There was every reason. Because you consider yourself above and beyond the rest of the public sector.

I was in the US civil service, and I never considered myself better, because I wasn't. I am continually amazed at the behavior of those who think they are entitled.

I have been in the private sector here and never thought I was entitled either. Jonny Desk jobs is just so offensive.

Wow, that's a rather distorted exaggeration on my remarks you've made there!
My comments re. civil service desk johnny`s was in response to the rather clich!d and lazy comments on here about civil servants wandering around all day unchallenged with bits of paper in their hands. I wasn't saying I was better, I was suggesting that not all civil service jobs are of the nature where that sort of behaviour was possible. I do admit to having a finely honed sense of entitlement, simply because I firmly believe that the state should provide the gold standard as regards pension provision in return for the important, stressful and sometimes dangerous jobs that some public servants do.

Tromking

gadgetmind wrote: »

That's an utterly unreasonable, unsustainable, and unaffordable expectation.

If you feel that terms have changed such that you'd be better off elsewhere, perhaps even in the private sector, then resign and apply for jobs.

Simple!

You really are the master of hyperbole aren't you?
My comments were merely a reaction to your view that rather than public servants just doing their jobs under the terms and conditions they signed up to, we are somehow nefariously robbing the country blind while no-one is looking as suggested by your "making hay, while the sun shines" jibe earlier.
Here to provide a bit of balance.:)