Civil Servant for 23+ years yet no pension?

atush

I think you need to factor in the stressful nature of some public sector professions

I agree, they can be very stressful positions (although many again are not).

I worked in a US hospital emergency room so know the real pace and horror that could be the case. On friday nights it could be a war zone.

I think a lot of the UK public sector isn't very stressed, as they have had job security many others don't. That is Real stress.

Tromking

atush wrote: »

I disagree. I find Gadget's ideas completely sensible in a financial sense, nothing to do with any political ideology.

....has Gadget proffered any ideas?:)
Public sector jobs can be easy obviously, but traditionally there is a reason why they are generous as regards terms and conditions, that's because no berk would do them if they weren't! As I`ve said already, when the recovery is fully realised its going to be interesting to see if the new terms and conditions on offer will give us the public services we`ve been used to. I have my doubts.

hyubh

bigadaj wrote: »

Ok, but under what circumstances would this specific example have arisen anywhere else.

Any final salary pension scheme that allows combining separate periods of membership without going through a CETV process. That said, the fact there was a big service break is by the by really - the potential for big leaps in the value of accrued pension rights is inherent in the very idea of a final salary pension scheme.

It could of course be that the OP is on huge money, but can you see any commercial organisation thinking its a good idea to accrue £45000 per year costs just in pension costs?

Short answer - yes. If a large private contractor in the LGPS wants to get rid of a high earner in his late 50s, it will do what it takes where a local authority in the same situation would be constrained by public disclosure requirements.

That said, in general terms, the main difference between public and private sector DB schemes in practice is that the former are much more rigidly rule based. As such, if one member of a given public sector scheme can combine periods of membership, then all can. Likewise, the pension implications of (say) making someone redundant ten years from retirement will be largely as per the scheme rules rather than down to individual negotiation between the employer and the person being made redundant.

That figure is actually conservative as the annuity lump sum to purchase such a payout would surely be higher.

What it takes for an individual to buy an equivalent annuity isn't really relevant to the scheme though.

bigadaj

Ok, but defined benefit schemes don't really exist in teh private sector anymore, and to go back to my main point I don't think there would be virtually any scenarios whereby a private sector company would accrue those pension costs over that period of time, it's just not economic on most circumstances.

You might say I'm comparing apples and oranges, but there aren't any oranges left for comparison.

bigadaj

Tromking wrote: »

....has Gadget proffered any ideas?:)
Public sector jobs can be easy obviously, but traditionally there is a reason why they are generous as regards terms and conditions, that's because no berk would do them if they weren't! As I`ve said already, when the recovery is fully realised its going to be interesting to see if the new terms and conditions on offer will give us the public services we`ve been used to. I have my doubts.

I'd be interested to see you quote some specific examples of jobs and roles in the public sector.

I can't see too many areas in my experience where the incredible quality of public services are evident, which is why I'm interested in examples.

mgdavid

Tromking wrote: »

We`re digressing I know, but your views on the public sector are in my opinion a bit on the clich!d side. By using the term 'gravy train' again it smacks of thinly veiled envy on your part.

not at all, 'gravy train' is a pejorative term to most of us in the private sector.

Tromking

Again, some rather hackneyed views on the merits or otherwise of working in the public sector. I have to say the experiences of the civil service some have espoused on this thread are not ones I have been witness to in my 27 years on the frontline. Perhaps you chaps were Desk Johnny types engaged in admin tasks.:)

bigadaj

Tromking wrote: »

Again, some rather hackneyed views on the merits or otherwise of working in the public sector. I have to say the experiences of the civil service some have espoused on this thread are not ones I have been witness to in my 27 years on the frontline. Perhaps you chaps were Desk Johnny types engaged in admin tasks.:)

What were you doing?

Tromking

bigadaj wrote: »

What were you doing?

HM Prison Service.

gadgetmind

By using the term 'gravy train' again it smacks of thinly veiled envy on your part.

I've never really got envy. I've always preferred to give myself the required kick up the backside to get on with the job, and have therefore ended up pretty much where I want to be.

However, I can fully understand how someone in the private sector who's had to contribute 25%+ of their meagre salary to get a decent pension might well envy those who get it handed to them on a plate. Such disparities aren't good for us as a country.

My feeling towards the public sector are simply the result of it not being fit for purpose regards quality of service and being incredibly inefficient because of the quantity of deadwood that it not only carries but rewards handsomely.

How we get from where we are to where we need to be is the hard one. Changes are being made but at a fraction of the speed that change happens in the private sector, hence the gulf we see opening up.