PCN issued in England, registered keeper in Scotland (NTK also outside 56 days)

buddiescot

I had a windscreen PCN issued to me by 'Parking Collection Services' in England but am the keeper of the vehicle registered in Scotland. I subsequently received an NTK to my address in Scotland but was abroad at the time and have only just seen the document now on my return, outwith the 28 days allowed to launch an appeal/POPLA appeal. The NTK was also sent to me quite a bit *after* 56 days had elapsed. I have now also received a 'Notification of Liability' as I did not respond to the NTK (couldn't as was abroad and didn't see it).

So, I've read through all of the advice on the stickies etc. and was looking for some advice on this. I believe I should be ok just to ignore everything based on being resident outside England? I'm also of the belief that I couldn't have appealed to POPLA anyway even if I'd seen the NTK in time, again due to living in Scotland?

Many thanks.

pogofish

Yup - No POFA 2012 in Scotland, so no keeper liability - Just ignore, also PPCs can't raise actions in the Scottish courts for anything in England, and there would be no chance of them winning if they did.

So keep-on ignoring unless you get genuine, properly issued court papers, which can be easily dealt with - Some English chancers have had papers issued from Northampton but they are invariably cancelled when Scotland is mentioned.

da_rule

Pogofish, whilst I see where you're coming from my counter argument would be that whilst you are in England/Wales you are bound by the POFA. The POFA can be enforced via a court with jurisdiction in England/Wales and then an application can be made for the enforcement of the decision in Scotland. This could be expensive so the PPC would probably not do it. I would still recommend that the OP makes an appeal as per the sticky posts, as there is nothing to prevent someone making a claim against someone in Scotland in England providing the breach happened in England (maybe independence will change that completely). I don't know what anyone else thinks.

Coupon-mad

I think you could have tried a POPLA appeal but we are not 100% sure if they'd consider it.

Anyway I would send them a rebuttal of the 'Notification of Liability' saying you are a registered keeper resident in Scotland where not only does the POFA2012 not apply, but also they failed to serve the NTK before day 56 so you expect them to cancel this as it is going nowhere.

And send a complaint email to the BPA and separately to the DVLA, stating that this PPC has sent a 'Notification of Liability' to a registered keeper resident in Scotland and they failed to serve the NTK before day 56 so there is no keeper liability even if you were in England.

Email addies for Steve Clark at the BPA and David Dunford at the DVLA is in post #6 of the NEWBIES thread. Send separate emails so they each have to log them as a complaint.

da_rule

Coupon-mad, surely where the R/K is from doesn't actually make a difference, the fact is that the 'breach' (I use the word very loosely) happened in England so POFA would apply. Otherwise cars registered outside of the UK for example would not be liable any breaches of the Road Traffic Act etc.

But yes, the out of time and all of the usual appeal routes would win out.

Just playing devils advocate?

pogofish

No actually - Several instances of this recorded here already. Northampton always drop the action when it transpires that the driver is resident in Scotland.

da_rule

pogofish wrote: »

No actually - Several instances of this recorded here already. Northampton always drop the action when it transpires that the driver is resident in Scotland.

Thanks for that, I would say though that Northampton don't drop cases, either the claimant decides its too much hassle or the court rejects the N510 (application to serve out of jurisdiction).

As an aside, most PPC signs say they are covered by the laws of England and Wales (when they're in England or Wales obviously ), so therefore would be enforceable through the courts if a PPC decided it really wanted to spend the money, which it wouldn't. It is no different to a contract. If I were to live in Scotland but signed a contract with someone which had as a clause it was governed by the laws of England and Wales then the English courts would take jurisdiction.

Stroma

The RK is in Scotland so can't be taken to the small claims, the reason amongst many is that there are no county courts in Scotland, so how can it be defended against? Also pofa 2012 does not apply in Scotland, so any claims there trying to cite the Act is not likely to be allowed, pofa is for England and Wales only!

We have had this discussion many times here, and a number of people have had claims cancelled once the courts have been informed and defences lodged. Most of them have been parking eye abusing the system by omitting Scotland in the address

buddiescot

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I think you could have tried a POPLA appeal but we are not 100% sure if they'd consider it.

Anyway I would send them a rebuttal of the 'Notification of Liability' saying you are a registered keeper resident in Scotland where not only does the POFA2012 not apply, but also they failed to serve the NTK before day 56 so you expect them to cancel this as it is going nowhere.

And send a complaint email to the BPA and separately to the DVLA, stating that this PPC has sent a 'Notification of Liability' to a registered keeper resident in Scotland and they failed to serve the NTK before day 56 so there is no keeper liability even if you were in England.

Email addies for Steve Clark at the BPA and David Dunford at the DVLA is in post #6 of the NEWBIES thread. Send separate emails so they each have to log them as a complaint.

Ok, so looks like it may be safe to ignore but also possibly take the above course of action anyway. Thanks a lot everyone.