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Tenant forged AST.
tumbledowngirl
Posts: 265 Forumite
I have posted previously, concerning the same tenants - but things have been turned on their head so it seems sensible to start a completely new post.
Our tenants left the property 6 months into a 12 month AST. They claimed they had been issued with both a 6 month and 12 month agreement, which our LA strenuously denied.
When asked, the tenant emailed a copy of the 6 month AST but an IT specialist has been able to prove that it was actually a doctered version of the 12 month agreement.
The tenant was offered a settlement agreement to terminate the 12 month AST immediately, prior to us having concrete proof of the forgery.
The tenant refused to pay the settlement, claiming that he had a recorded phone call from my husband, in which my husband had said that he could surrender the agreement without further payment. He also claimed to have an email from my husband, stating that my husband was going to arrange return of the deposit during the next week.
When asked to provide a copy of the email, the tenant simply produced one which we'd sent after visiting the property (with the tenant's written permission) following the storms last month, which said that all seemed fine ,no storm damage.
He has not able to provide a recording of the phone call he says he has (which actually doesn't exist.)
Once we were able to prove that he'd forged the tenancy agreement, our LA once again gave him the chance to pay a settlement to end the 12 month AST, before we took legal action.
The tenant agreed to pay the sum requested, but argued that it should be taken from the deposit (he wouldn't contest it) and he would pay the difference. We did not agree to this,since it is written into the AST that the deposit is not to be used for rent and we suspect that the tenant WILL dispute the payment. Also, there is every possibility that there will need to be repair/cleaning deductions to be withheld from the deposit.
The tenant didn't reply to the LA's reply, so after a further 48 hours, the LA wrote again, explaining to the tenant that rent would be owed until the surrender was agreed and signed, since without it, the 12 month AST was still valid and running.
The LA then received an email from an individual, claiming to have been instructed by the tenant. In it, it said that recording a phone call was not against the law and since the verbal agreement in the phone call over-rode the written AST, we were trying to extort money from this person's clinet and if we persued it with solicitors, he would have us for harrassment.
It then went on to say that his client would be persuing us for damages of over £2k, and listed a bizarre catalogue of supposed losses incurred during the tenancy, eg loss of tools, loss of use of the garden, loss of use of part of the kitchen, stress of having to wait in for workmen etc - no more details than that, and nothing which either we or the LA have ever been informed of previously.
It ended by saying that if the tenant wasn't served court papers by the 15th of this month, this person would consider the case closed with no monies owing from the tenant.
The LA sent an email reply, simply acknowledging receipt of the email and asking for the person's company details and address.
These were sent by the same person...only this time he signed off using a different surname from his original email and it turned out to be the same as the tenant's - it's his father.
A quick search of the internet showed us that his father appears to be some kind of (potentially dodgy) businessman. He has been director of over 30 business that have been dissolved, several of which our tenant was also director of. When I searched the business address he gave the LA, it lists about a dozen business operating from it - all of which he is connected to in some way. Both he and the tenant have been listed on the electoral roll under slightly different names.
We have also discovered that the tenant has our property address and phone number listed on at least a dozen directory websites, under a business name.
Our LA thinks it best to contact solicitors and see what they say about what's happened.
Has anyone else ever had a tenant forge an AST?
Should I be informing the letting agent of the tenant's new property of what we know?
Our tenants left the property 6 months into a 12 month AST. They claimed they had been issued with both a 6 month and 12 month agreement, which our LA strenuously denied.
When asked, the tenant emailed a copy of the 6 month AST but an IT specialist has been able to prove that it was actually a doctered version of the 12 month agreement.
The tenant was offered a settlement agreement to terminate the 12 month AST immediately, prior to us having concrete proof of the forgery.
The tenant refused to pay the settlement, claiming that he had a recorded phone call from my husband, in which my husband had said that he could surrender the agreement without further payment. He also claimed to have an email from my husband, stating that my husband was going to arrange return of the deposit during the next week.
When asked to provide a copy of the email, the tenant simply produced one which we'd sent after visiting the property (with the tenant's written permission) following the storms last month, which said that all seemed fine ,no storm damage.
He has not able to provide a recording of the phone call he says he has (which actually doesn't exist.)
Once we were able to prove that he'd forged the tenancy agreement, our LA once again gave him the chance to pay a settlement to end the 12 month AST, before we took legal action.
The tenant agreed to pay the sum requested, but argued that it should be taken from the deposit (he wouldn't contest it) and he would pay the difference. We did not agree to this,since it is written into the AST that the deposit is not to be used for rent and we suspect that the tenant WILL dispute the payment. Also, there is every possibility that there will need to be repair/cleaning deductions to be withheld from the deposit.
The tenant didn't reply to the LA's reply, so after a further 48 hours, the LA wrote again, explaining to the tenant that rent would be owed until the surrender was agreed and signed, since without it, the 12 month AST was still valid and running.
The LA then received an email from an individual, claiming to have been instructed by the tenant. In it, it said that recording a phone call was not against the law and since the verbal agreement in the phone call over-rode the written AST, we were trying to extort money from this person's clinet and if we persued it with solicitors, he would have us for harrassment.
It then went on to say that his client would be persuing us for damages of over £2k, and listed a bizarre catalogue of supposed losses incurred during the tenancy, eg loss of tools, loss of use of the garden, loss of use of part of the kitchen, stress of having to wait in for workmen etc - no more details than that, and nothing which either we or the LA have ever been informed of previously.
It ended by saying that if the tenant wasn't served court papers by the 15th of this month, this person would consider the case closed with no monies owing from the tenant.
The LA sent an email reply, simply acknowledging receipt of the email and asking for the person's company details and address.
These were sent by the same person...only this time he signed off using a different surname from his original email and it turned out to be the same as the tenant's - it's his father.
A quick search of the internet showed us that his father appears to be some kind of (potentially dodgy) businessman. He has been director of over 30 business that have been dissolved, several of which our tenant was also director of. When I searched the business address he gave the LA, it lists about a dozen business operating from it - all of which he is connected to in some way. Both he and the tenant have been listed on the electoral roll under slightly different names.
We have also discovered that the tenant has our property address and phone number listed on at least a dozen directory websites, under a business name.
Our LA thinks it best to contact solicitors and see what they say about what's happened.
Has anyone else ever had a tenant forge an AST?
Should I be informing the letting agent of the tenant's new property of what we know?
0
Comments
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Do not give in to blackmail, and this is precisely what these scumbags are up to.
They can consider the "case closed" on any date they like but it's not in their gift to do so. These shysters are amateurs and not very good with it, either.
"loss of tools, loss of use of the garden, loss of use of part of the kitchen, stress of having to wait in for workmen" do not constitute actual financial losses bar the tools, and they should have either been looked after by the tenant properly or insured by him.
Get your surrender document signed and the money agreed paid over to you or get to court.0 -
It is time to get down to business.
Send a "Final Letter Before Action" requesting payment of the outstanding rent, plus any damage, less the deposit.
Do not go into detail. A simple request for £X to be paid within 7 working days or legal action will follow.
If you do not receive the money (or a % of it with which you are happy in order o put the matter behind you), issue court proceedings.
Do not be intimidated by some unknown 3rd party whose sole intent is to intimidate you!0 -
Thank you both for your replies and advice.
I am fairly certain we won't see any money from the tenant, so that leaves court action.
Are we talking about small claims court? A straightforward S.8, or something else? Do we have to wait until 2 months is in arrears or can we take action now?
Apologies for what might be dumb questions - I've just got befuddled by the ins and outs of this situation. Should we simply persue the rent owed (as it stands currently, owed from 26th Feb), or persue action for the forgery as well - and if so, how?
My concern is that if we simply wait and issue an S.8, the tenant will try to draw things out by arguing his ridiculous claims for disrepair - at our cost.
The only good thing about the situation is that we know the tenant's new address (round the corner from our rental property!) and have his work address as well.0 -
You cannot use a Section 8 Notice. That's a means of seeking possession but your tenant has gone and you can prove it.
Any rent due up to and including the date of surrender plus whatever penalty you think you deserve, plus any costs for damage etcetera you go to the county court and claim for now.
Keep all this evidence of forgery and all the other jiggerypokery up your sleeves for the court hearing.0 -
You started with "Our tenants left the property 6 months into a 12 month AST." so lets address this issue of whether the tenancy has ended or not.
Were keys returned? Was any letter/document etc (signed by tenant) provided to you indicating the tennt was surrendering the tenancy? Is the property empty? Have you been in?
If the tenancy has been clearly surrendered, then no S8 (or S21) is needed. You are simply suing for breach of contract and damages.
If the tenancy continues, then yes, you will also need to end it. Since the basis of your claim is that it is a 12 month contract, you cannot use a S21 till the 12 months is up (well, you can issue it, but not go to court for possession).
So yes, a S8. From what you have said it seems likely that 2 months rent is owed, so ground 8 can be used.
However, if you bring the tenancy to an end via a S8 and court possession order, I think you will struggle to claim rent for the remaining months between the date of the possession order and the end of the 12 months.0 -
Note that for a surrender to occur it is not enough that the tenant offer it. The landlord must also accept it.
If it is accepted the tenancy ends, and so does liability for rent. You cannot then claim for the rent that would have been otherwise due until the end of the term.
If the offer is not accepted, then the tenancy continues and so does the liability for rent until the end of the term.
In any case you cannot claim for any penalty.
If the surrender was accepted you could claim for cost to re-let only if the agreement had a provision to that effect.0 -
You started with "Our tenants left the property 6 months into a 12 month AST." so lets address this issue of whether the tenancy has ended or not.
Were keys returned? Was any letter/document etc (signed by tenant) provided to you indicating the tennt was surrendering the tenancy? Is the property empty? Have you been in?
If the tenancy has been clearly surrendered, then no S8 (or S21) is needed. You are simply suing for breach of contract and damages.
If the tenancy continues, then yes, you will also need to end it. Since the basis of your claim is that it is a 12 month contract, you cannot use a S21 till the 12 months is up (well, you can issue it, but not go to court for possession).
So yes, a S8. From what you have said it seems likely that 2 months rent is owed, so ground 8 can be used.
However, if you bring the tenancy to an end via a S8 and court possession order, I think you will struggle to claim rent for the remaining months between the date of the possession order and the end of the 12 months.
This is where I am slightly lost.
The tenants simply moved out - at first they tried to claim that they had been verbally released by the LA. I have seen emails between our LA and the LA of the new property, which show that our LA was asked for references but refused, stating that the tenants were tied into an agreement until the end of July.
It appears that the tenant produced the 6 month AST for the new LA and secured the new property that way.
The first we knew of an issue was that the rent wasn't paid (it had been late for several months previously, so nothing new) and by chance, we found a new address for the female tenant's business. We visited the property (but only saw it from the road) and all curtains were shut, no sign of anyone. Went to the new address - tenants car was there.
LA tried to chase up the arrears - no response. He then suggested requesting permission for access to conduct a viewing, to get the tenant to respond. Tenant responded, saying he would pay the rent until a new tenant was found. At this point, LA thought he was simply dealing with a tenant who had fled (not forgery). We went along with the LA' s suggestion because he suggested it was the best way to get access to check out the state of the property - we didn't formally agree a surrender, since the tenant had previously asked to be released from the 12 month agreement some weeks before and we had refused. (It was between that point and the point of leaving that he forged the 6 month AST.)
We contacted the tenant directly to get permission to access the property, concerned about possible storm damage. When we went in, a of curtains was still up and a fire guard.
The next day, the tenant's wife went into the office on and left some keys. She simply handed them to a Saturday girl and left - but they appear to be missing the front door keys. The following Monday, we met with the LA to discuss matters and agreed that the tenant was starting to mess about and the best idea was to offer a settlement to terminate immediately. The LA then wrote to him formally, at both addresses, making clear that the keys were held without prejudice and a settlement agreement and payment was proposed, otherwise the tenancy continued under the 12 month AST. The settlement figure was slightly less than a month's rent plus re-let fee and was offered 8 days before the next rent was due, with the offer expiring the day before rent due.
It was at this point the tenant claimed he had a phone call agreeing to let him go without further pay, and the email saying we'd arrange to release his deposit. We then realised that he was trying to scam us and that's when an IT expert looked at the 6 month agreement and was able to show how it had been forged (although the copied signature sheet alone was enough!)
When informed of the proof and told that the supposed email and phone call was nonsense, the tenant agreed the settlement - but only on his terms. We argued, and reminded him that the tenancy stood until the settlement was agreed and was therefore running at a pro-rata daily rate...which was the point at which the 3rd party got involved.0 -
jjlandlord wrote: »Note that for a surrender to occur it is not enough that the tenant offer it. The landlord must also accept it.
If it is accepted the tenancy ends, and so does liability for rent. You cannot then claim for the rent that would have been otherwise due until the end of the term.
If the offer is not accepted, then the tenancy continues and so does the liability for rent until the end of the term.
In any case you cannot claim for any penalty.
If the surrender was accepted you could claim for cost to re-let only if the agreement had a provision to that effect.
I've read elsewhere (possibly even on here?) that a settlement or "penalty" can be offered as an alternative to asking the tenant to pay rent until a new tenant is found. Of course, the tenant doesn't have to agree to it, but it's an option.
Would a court see that as unreasonable? If so, why is it more unfair than asking a tenant to pay rent for the rest of the term?
The amount we requested was less than a month's rent plus re-let fee, and was offered in advance of the next rent becoming payable, in an effort to bring things to a close before we had to chase the tenant for rent and take court action. It was actually an attempt to mitigate both party's losses.0 -
I should add, we have no intention of getting repossession (if needed) AND suing for the remaining term' s rent - it's either or.
However, it seems we won't get any money from the tenant without a fight - so far, it's only one month but he won't agree to either pay the settlement or pay the rent on-going so we are in gridlock.
The other question is whether we take the fraud aspect further - waste of time?0 -
tumbledowngirl wrote: »I've read elsewhere (possibly even on here?) that a settlement or "penalty" can be offered as an alternative to asking the tenant to pay rent until a new tenant is found. Of course, the tenant doesn't have to agree to it, but it's an option.
That would be your condition to accept the surrender.
From all your posts it is unclear what is the current status of that tenancy.
As said before, it might have be easier to just accept their surrender and re-let asap.0
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