Is it legal that the NMW is lower than the benefits cap?

pennyago

sniggings wrote: »

I'm in the same boat but remember if you do not qualify for tax credits chances are you will for housing benefit...if I didn't get tax credits I would get housing benefit which would be nearly exactly the same amount as I get in tax credits, they give with one hand and take with another.

Trust me I know where you are coming from, as I too am working and not much better off, I travel over 12 hours a week to work and back, pay £15 a week on a bus ticket and I'm only about £30 a week better off than on the dole so less than a £1 an hour I'm working for, but I do not blame those on the dole, as they make up a very small part of the problem, and if you consider most on the dole will only be out of work for less than 4 months, the problem is not really a problem at all, as said rents and low pay are the issue here, many businesses that make billions do not pay a living wage, the tax payer are paying benefits to those working people, yet they make billions in profit...be angry but be angry at the right people not some poor sod on the dole, don't play into the Tories hands.

Didn't you find that being on the dole was soul-destroying? Much better for your self-esteem to be in paid employment.

dori2o

StormyWeather wrote: »

So in work benefits will still be high?

Why doesn't the government address the low wages issue so that fewer workers need top ups?

Because thats the easy/logical way to do things. You can't expect our Government to be logical.

At the end of the day both major parties are run not by the MP's who represent them but by business, big businesses, all of whom will do whatever it takes to prevent the Government doing the right thing and significantly increasing the NMW to a level which means there is very little additional subsidy needed.

Look at the businesses who pay NMW or just a little higher, many of them post multi £M profits year on year but are happy to pay their staff as close to the bare minimum as possible, happy in the knowledge that their low pay is being topped up by UK Gov.

Tax credits have turned from a way to help people get into work and earn a living, to a huge subsidy for UK businesses which keeps wages artificially low.

The NMW should be at least £8.25p/h. It is disgusting that the Gov has allowed the circumstances to arise where a person working full time on NMW is bringing home no mare that £13k a year, even less when Tax/NI and pension contributions have been taken.

The answer to the problem is in Camerons own rhetoric, 'Make work pay'. In order to do this you have to increase the NMW.

zagfles

dori2o wrote: »

Because thats the easy/logical way to do things. You can't expect our Government to be logical.

At the end of the day both major parties are run not by the MP's who represent them but by business, big businesses, all of whom will do whatever it takes to prevent the Government doing the right thing and significantly increasing the NMW to a level which means there is very little additional subsidy needed.

Look at the businesses who pay NMW or just a little higher, many of them post multi £M profits year on year but are happy to pay their staff as close to the bare minimum as possible, happy in the knowledge that their low pay is being topped up by UK Gov.

Tax credits have turned from a way to help people get into work and earn a living, to a huge subsidy for UK businesses which keeps wages artificially low.

The NMW should be at least £8.25p/h. It is disgusting that the Gov has allowed the circumstances to arise where a person working full time on NMW is bringing home no mare that £13k a year, even less when Tax/NI and pension contributions have been taken.

The answer to the problem is in Camerons own rhetoric, 'Make work pay'. In order to do this you have to increase the NMW.

Really? For a start £8.25/h would be around £17k a year full time, this would mean "top-ups" would still be needed for every family with children with a single earner on that wage. Even with 2 parents on that wage full time tax credits are likely to be needed if childcare is required, or more than 2 kids. So it would solve very little.

Secondly, it would make the UK's NMW the highest in Europe other than Luxembourg. In fact even now there are only 4 "proper" countries (excluding principalities) with higher NMW than the UK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_minimum_wage

Why would any major company want to invest in a country with the highest cost of labour in the whole of Europe? We already have "offshoring" of jobs, how many times do you end up speaking to a foreign call centre? This will make things worse while hardly scratching the surface of the problem of tax credits being needed to top-up wages.

bloolagoon

dori2o wrote: »

Because thats the easy/logical way to do things. You can't expect our Government to be logical.

At the end of the day both major parties are run not by the MP's who represent them but by business, big businesses, all of whom will do whatever it takes to prevent the Government doing the right thing and significantly increasing the NMW to a level which means there is very little additional subsidy needed.

Look at the businesses who pay NMW or just a little higher, many of them post multi £M profits year on year but are happy to pay their staff as close to the bare minimum as possible, happy in the knowledge that their low pay is being topped up by UK Gov.

Tax credits have turned from a way to help people get into work and earn a living, to a huge subsidy for UK businesses which keeps wages artificially low.

The NMW should be at least £8.25p/h. It is disgusting that the Gov has allowed the circumstances to arise where a person working full time on NMW is bringing home no mare that £13k a year, even less when Tax/NI and pension contributions have been taken.

The answer to the problem is in Camerons own rhetoric, 'Make work pay'. In order to do this you have to increase the NMW.

If you raise it are you stopping ALL in work benefits.

Morlock

dori2o wrote: »

The answer to the problem is in Camerons own rhetoric, 'Make work pay'. In order to do this you have to increase the NMW.

The Tories 'Make Work Pay' mantra is not about raising wages, but cutting benefits. Of course work will pay if the alternative is nothing.

"Make Work Pay, Because Something Is Better Than Nothing"

sniggings

pennyago wrote: »

Didn't you find that being on the dole was soul-destroying? Much better for your self-esteem to be in paid employment.

yes but working 35 hours a week and traveling a min of 12 hours a week to get to work, to be only £30 a week better off, is not filling me with a sense of pride either.

Anyway that wasn't the point I was making, obviously I feel working is better, hence me working but it doesn't change the fact that wages are low and rents too high, and the Governments answer is to help more people get on the property latter, which in turn will only raise property prices more, I guess they don't want their million pound houses they own dropping too much in value.

pennyago

I worked as a manager in an environment where the staff were paid the NMW and I can tell you the directors didn't take home less than the employees. Every year when the NMW increased I was told they couldn't afford the higher wage bill. I had to cut hours, usually lose a part-timer. In the end I had to get out because of the increased stress.

Raising the NMW £1 an hour will cost jobs and it won't happen. As you say it would be political suicide!

pennyago

sniggings wrote: »

yes but working 35 hours a week and traveling a min of 12 hours a week to get to work, to be only £30 a week better off, is not filling me with a sense of pride either.

I made the point that working has to be better than being on the dole, the problem is working in a low paid jobs. Once in employment it is easier to look around for a better paid job or try to do some training and progress that way. I also know that is not easy either when the economy isn't producing jobs. Hats off to you for working and travelling for so little extra reward.

StormyWeather_2

That's the problem. The number and type of jobs that offer NMW or near NMW seems to have increased. It should really be for totally unskilled, low experience, student type employment.

Something needs to be done. I don't know what.

skintmacflint

StormyWeather wrote: »

Something needs to be done. I don't know what.

Me neither. lol. and don't see it changing soon. Think if there was a fairly simple way to do it , would have been tried before now. Competing for industry to set up here when they've the choice of China or any number of emerging economies with plenty of cheap labour on tap and less H&S rules to adhere to, it's not hard to work out why decent paid jobs are in severe decline.

Historically service industries never paid the high rates found in some manufacturing or the more traditional heavy industries.

So we continue with the government running up huge deficits trying to keep everyone at a relatively decent standard of living because too many jobs can't. Stands to reason it can't continue indefintely and at some point will self implode. At that point we'll all have to accept much reduced living standards and expectations whether we like it or not. .

No government is brave enough to point out the obvious , so they just plod on tinkering about the edges.Hoping they won't go down in the history books as the government in power when the proverbial finally hit the fan.