"Let go" without any notice

PHILANTHROPIST

AP007 wrote: »

If shes registered as SE then there is not much she can do about it.

Does she know the names of the clients?

Search od Facebook maybe?

AP - may be somewhat hard to believe , but being registered as being self employed for tax and NI purposes does not equate to employment status as being "self employed" as per meaning in employment case law. I could explain why, or send / add an explanatory link, but for the time being please give me the benefit of the (legal) doubt.

mummyroysof3

Stand near the shop but out of site handing out leaflets saying she now mobile and see if she he's some interest that way? Advertise everywhere local that is free. At least with being mobile she gets her money for every job as she does it. Good luck

moneyistooshorttomention

GothicStirling wrote: »

Has she ever thought about officially going self-employed herself? I have a neighbour who does this out of her house for years, she also goes to people's homes, and visits care homes and does the resident's hair.

As for getting business she could try getting a piece in a local newspaper saying that she's 'moved on' (don't say anything about being let go), and some of the clients might approach her, generate word of mouth etc. Also, make sure she's using social media to generate business.

My thoughts exactly.

In her position, I would be getting an advert or two out there to effect of "For the benefit of my customers...I am now at xxxx".

Chances are that there will be a bit of verbal aggro about doing this, but I'd do it anyway in her position.

I wouldn't be out to take the customers that come for the shop as a whole, but any that always specifically came to me personally would be "my customers" in my book and I would just be ensuring they could keep their regular personal hairdresser they were used to.

Some people would probably prefer a home service for instance. Whether because they were too ill to get out to a hairdressers premises or they didn't like the harsh lighting in the average hairdressers or perhaps mothers with children (and unable to find a babysitter whilst they went to the hairdresser). I know I, for instance, am perfectly capable of getting myself to the hairdresser without problem, but HATE that harsh lighting and I would imagine a fair number of older women would also prefer to have it done in their own homes just for that reason. Hairdressing by candlelight and with nice music playing would suit me nicely...

There must be plenty of perfectly fit women who would have the same preference. Whether because of loss of looks from getting older (my personal bugbear) or because they hate inter-reacting with many people at once, but can handle one person at a time (eg autistic people). If she approaches her advertising the right way, she could be onto a winner if she emphasises all the reasons various different people simply don't WANT to go to a hairdressers' premises, but would be okay with being seen in their own home.

PHILANTHROPIST

Hi again DK_abc .

I see that you are receiving some good tips re alternative employment.

If, however, ur partner is interested in potential justice, compensation, compromise and/or her "job" back then please consider and/or kindly answer following queries :

a) How was she paid ? Cash / cheque/ pay intervals ?
b) Who decided upon and/or had final decision on price of hairdressing services - ur partner or salon.... or mix of above ?
c) Could or did ur partner work for other hairdressing salons ?
d) Holidays - did she have to, or did she give give salon owner reasonable notice ?
e) When your partner was unavailable to work at the salon did she, or was she required/ expected to provide a replacement hairdresser who was then paid separately by your partner ... in legal terminology, this is called "substitution".
f) Would your partner say that she was for the main part, or even exclusively, under the control of the salon owner... i.e. did she have to follow the salon's specific working procedures, service and quality standards. Alternatively, did each individual hairdresser who "rented a chair" work to their own different styles and quality standards etc ?
g) Was yesterday's telecon with salon owner overheard / witnessed, or better still did you tape it (technically a breach of human rights, but in circumstances taped evidence may well on balance be fine).
h) When was partner on maternity leave and what notice was given, anything in writing, did she receive stat maternity pay - if so who paid it? Was her position / "chair" kept open for her ?
i) Possibly not of major importance , but pl clarify following extract from ur opening statement, in particular pl define which specific party you are referring to...i.e ur partner, the boss, new hairdresser !? - “ She said there is one new person in the shop who is a full time, been there about 4 months and she had a falling out with him a couple of weeks ago saying he believed she had been putting false names in his column so she would get the next haircuts. She says twice people didn't turn up for him and both times it was her name next on the list... coincidence ?”

If you can answer some , if not all, of above, and also ask ur partner what outcome she ideally wants moving forward then I may be able to comment further or put in touch with some free and confidential services who may be able to offer further assistance.

Conversely, if legal rights/ options are not ur thing then pl let me know and I will back off and wish you and your family the very best for the future.

makeyourdaddyproud

PHILANTHROPIST wrote: »

Hi again DK_abc .

I see that you are receiving some good tips re alternative employment.

If, however, ur partner is interested in potential justice, compensation, compromise and/or her "job" back then please consider and/or kindly answer following queries :

a) How was she paid ? Cash / cheque/ pay intervals ?
b) Who decided upon and/or had final decision on price of hairdressing services - ur partner or salon.... or mix of above ?
c) Could or did ur partner work for other hairdressing salons ?
d) Holidays - did she have to, or did she give give salon owner reasonable notice ?
e) When your partner was unavailable to work at the salon did she, or was she required/ expected to provide a replacement hairdresser who was then paid separately by your partner ... in legal terminology, this is called "substitution".
f) Would your partner say that she was for the main part, or even exclusively, under the control of the salon owner... i.e. did she have to follow the salon's specific working procedures, service and quality standards. Alternatively, did each individual hairdresser who "rented a chair" work to their own different styles and quality standards etc ?
g) Was yesterday's telecon with salon owner overheard / witnessed, or better still did you tape it (technically a breach of human rights, but in circumstances taped evidence may well on balance be fine).
h) When was partner on maternity leave and what notice was given, anything in writing, did she receive stat maternity pay - if so who paid it? Was her position / "chair" kept open for her ?
i) Possibly not of major importance , but pl clarify following extract from ur opening statement, in particular pl define which specific party you are referring to...i.e ur partner, the boss, new hairdresser !? - “ She said there is one new person in the shop who is a full time, been there about 4 months and she had a falling out with him a couple of weeks ago saying he believed she had been putting false names in his column so she would get the next haircuts. She says twice people didn't turn up for him and both times it was her name next on the list... coincidence ?”

If you can answer some , if not all, of above, and also ask ur partner what outcome she ideally wants moving forward then I may be able to comment further or put in touch with some free and confidential services who may be able to offer further assistance.

Conversely, if legal rights/ options are not ur thing then pl let me know and I will back off and wish you and your family the very best for the future.

Most of that is irrelevant as there is no contract in place. She should put it down to experience and move on. Rather than lamenting on the departure, she should be forging her next move as a mobile / private hairdresser - as others have suggested.

Acc72

Hi OP,

Firstly, sorry to hear of your situation.

There has been some good advice on this thread, however non of it results in generating money now/today.

I am assuming that there is not only one single hairdressers shop in your village/town/city ?

If so, then rather than waste time arguing with the previous shop owner or potentially getting involved in legal arguments (that will in reality get her nowhere) then she needs to ring every single hairdressers today to see if there are any other chairs for rent.

If not, then she should ring / text / facebook etc. all her customers and offer a mobile hairdressing service until a chair becomes available.

She is in a much better position than many other people (eg. who work in a shop) as she has skills that can generate cash quite quickly - I am not saying that this will be easy, however it is possible.

Also, look for solutions and not obstacles. If she goes mobile there may be additional costs (eg. bus fares, taxi, buy a bike !) but she will also save money as she will not have to give 50% to a shop owner.

On a separate note she also needs to double check where she is with regards to being self employed, paying NIC, keeping records etc.

DK_abc

Sorry, I was checking this page until 4am.. I didn't realise there was a page 2. Thanks for all your replies, a lot for me to catch up with but appreciated. I will work my way through now. Didn't want you thinking you were talking to thin air.

zzzLazyDaisy

makeyourdaddyproud wrote: »

Most of that is irrelevant as there is no contract in place. She should put it down to experience and move on. Rather than lamenting on the departure, she should be forging her next move as a mobile / private hairdresser - as others have suggested.

It may surprise you to learn that employment status does not turn on there being a written contract in place. Indeed many many employees do not have written contracts, despite it being the law that an employer must provide a written statement of particulars within 8 weeks, simply because the law does not provide any viable sanction for an employer's failure to comply.

There is, nevertheless, a contract in place as the general arrangements for hours, remuneration, holidays, time off, sick leave, maternity leave, who is responsible for providing the tools of the trade, etc have been in place and have been subject to change over the past 8 years.

The test for employee/self employed worker is much more complex (as philanthropist has indicated). Confusingly the test for employee status for employee rights, and employee status for tax purposes, while similar, is not identical, and it can (rarely) result in an ET and HMRC coming to different decisions on the same sets of facts. Which means that while an internet forum may be a good place to start for general information, OP's OH will need to seek independent professional advice tailored to her own individual situation, should she wish to challenge the owner's decision to 'let her go'.

There is some information here about employed/self employed status

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/#1

As stated above, it is not conclusive for ET purposes, but it is a very good start.

For what it is worth, my own experience of 'renting a chair' agreements is that the arrangement normally falls on the 'self-employed' side of the line. But that is a generalisation, and not intended to be specific advice re OP's enquiry.

PHILANTHROPIST

makeyourdaddyproud wrote: »

Most of that is irrelevant as there is no contract in place. She should put it down to experience and move on. Rather than lamenting on the departure, she should be forging her next move as a mobile / private hairdresser - as others have suggested.

Hi "makeyourdaddyproud" ; thanks for your observations. I can understand your confusion. However, my queries are legitimate and are far from irrelevant.

A contract does not have to always be in writing - though of course it helps ! As far as we are aware in this instance there appears to be no written/ formal/ express agreement or contract. That may aid the OP's partner.

As a result there may be an implied contract. The "in reality" test as per the famous landmark case of Autoclenz v Belcher may therefore apply.

Sorry if I sound like some pompous academic, but I have spent the past 2 years (successfully) dealing with a very similar case scenario on a pro bono basis.

FOOTNOTE - Thanks Daisy - our posts crossed, but we appear to have made similar observations. Re erring on the side of self employed. If the OP's partner has some appropriately worded express agreement incorporating a "contract for services" I'd concur. But based on case I've dealt with for past 2 years without a contract I'd err on the side of employment status as "worker" and/or possibly "employee". In past 2 years the judiciary are repeatedly erring on the side of rejecting defendant/ respondent arguments re self employed status. But as you rightfully re-affirm without witness testimony etc from both sides it's impossible to gauge on an internet forum.

getmore4less

Even if there is a case for being worker/employee that would most probably require an ET and who is going to stump up the fees for the OP?