"Let go" without any notice

AP007

DK_abc wrote: »

Any advice on if she's allowed to contact her regular clients or how she would be able to go about it? As far as I know in the past when people have left they have been allowed to let their clients know they were leaving, going elsewhere etc. She has lost all of that. She's a nice polite lady, works hard, lot of clients ask for her... Just gone!

Are they 'her' clients or the shops?

DK_abc

AP007 wrote: »

Are they 'her' clients or the shops?

They come into the shop so guessing they are shops?

DK_abc

Just checked our banks.. we have £170 to our name. Any help appreciated... Devestated I just laid out about £3000 on a project that I will be paid for over the next few months but nothing in banks now and nothing due in... as was expecting to get her wages. Is she likely to be able to get Job Seekers allowance or anything and how quick?

kingfisherblue

How does she pay income tax? Is it she who pays it directly to HMRC and fills out the appropriate forms, or does the shop sort out the income tax? I take it she has declared that she is working and she pays tax, assuming her income is high enough? Even if it isn't, she should still receive a tax code each year.

If the shop pays her income tax, then it is probably safe to say that she is employed, and therefore has the right not to be dismissed without notice under the circumstances described. However, if she pays her own tax and sorts out her tax affairs directly with HMRC, she is likely to be self employed, and the waters are muddier.

One final comment, really it should be your partner that speaks to the boss, not you. She is old enough to deal with things herself, although I imagine that she is quite distressed tonight. However, I don't think that her boss is under any obligation to discuss the matter with you. Many employers/landlords would refuse to do so.

DK_abc

kingfisherblue wrote: »

How does she pay income tax? Is it she who pays it directly to HMRC and fills out the appropriate forms, or does the shop sort out the income tax? I take it she has declared that she is working and she pays tax, assuming her income is high enough? Even if it isn't, she should still receive a tax code each year.

If the shop pays her income tax, then it is probably safe to say that she is employed, and therefore has the right not to be dismissed without notice under the circumstances described. However, if she pays her own tax and sorts out her tax affairs directly with HMRC, she is likely to be self employed, and the waters are muddier.

One final comment, really it should be your partner that speaks to the boss, not you. She is old enough to deal with things herself, although I imagine that she is quite distressed tonight. However, I don't think that her boss is under any obligation to discuss the matter with you. Many employers/landlords would refuse to do so.

She is under the tax threshold but is registered as working and self employed.

Yeah she was in tears and we have a 3yr old who wants to be with Mum. Thanks for the heads up though. I just wanted to understand what had gone on.

PHILANTHROPIST

DK_abc - Small world. I dealt with a similar matter recently.

As some posters have correctly said it all depends on your partner's "employment status". The law in this area is somewhat ever changing and is to a lay person quite complex ... I do not wish to appear patronising, but "quite " complex may be an under statement !

Based on what you say I would, if I may, need to ask some questions in able to be able to offer further guidance. Sadly, I am just heading out of the door to meet some friends so I will get back to you shortly.

As things stand I do not think this a clear cut matter/ case. Far from it. Your partner may have a so called "self employed" employment status ; most formal chair rental agreements are just that. Conversely, she may have employment status as a "worker" - possible , or even an employee (less likely). The fact that there is no contract may well be to her advantage. In the case I handled employment status was overturned in a Tribunal setting from self employed to employee based on what called the "reality test". It can happen, but each case depends on specific facts and circumstances and evidence. Tax status is relevant, but only an indicator and is rarely the determining factor per se.

If you could hang in there and/or unless another member can give you better guidance than I, then I will be back online later this evening... probably after 1130ish... and I will ask for some further and better particulars.

Hope that helps for now. There may be hope, but pl do not get your hopes up just yet.

GothicStirling

Has she ever thought about officially going self-employed herself? I have a neighbour who does this out of her house for years, she also goes to people's homes, and visits care homes and does the resident's hair.

As for getting business she could try getting a piece in a local newspaper saying that she's 'moved on' (don't say anything about being let go), and some of the clients might approach her, generate word of mouth etc. Also, make sure she's using social media to generate business.

DK_abc

PHILANTHROPIST wrote: »

DK_abc - Small world. I dealt with a similar matter recently.

As some posters have correctly said it all depends on your partner's "employment status". The law in this area is somewhat ever changing and is to a lay person quite complex ... I do not wish to appear patronising, but "quite " complex may be an under statement !

Based on what you say I would, if I may, need to ask some questions in able to be able to offer further guidance. Sadly, I am just heading out of the door to meet some friends so I will get back to you shortly.

As things stand I do not think this a clear cut matter/ case. Far from it. Your partner may have a so called "self employed" employment status ; most formal chair rental agreements are just that. Conversely, she may have employment status as a "worker" - possible , or even an employee (less likely). The fact that there is no contract may well be to her advantage. In the case I handled employment status was overturned in a Tribunal setting from self employed to employee based on what called the "reality test". It can happen, but each case depends on specific facts and circumstances and evidence. Tax status is relevant, but only an indicator and is rarely the determining factor per se.

If you could hang in there and/or unless another member can give you better guidance than I, then I will be back online later this evening... probably after 1130ish... and I will ask for some further and better particulars.

Hope that helps for now. There may be hope, but pl do not get your hopes up just yet.

Thanks, really appreciated. I have looked on the Citizens Advice website - How to tell if someone is an employee or employer. I would say it's 50/50 and not even sure what our objectives are in this. Just feel hugely let down. She genuinely thought all was fine and now has nothing. Just a warning or at least some notice would have been nice.

Thanks for your advice, it's really appreciated.

AP007

DK_abc wrote: »

She is under the tax threshold but is registered as working and self employed.

Yeah she was in tears and we have a 3yr old who wants to be with Mum. Thanks for the heads up though. I just wanted to understand what had gone on.

If shes registered as SE then there is not much she can do about it.

Does she know the names of the clients?

Search od Facebook maybe?

PHILANTHROPIST

DK_abc wrote: »

Thanks, really appreciated. I have looked on the Citizens Advice website - How to tell if someone is an employee or employer. I would say it's 50/50 and not even sure what our objectives are in this. Just feel hugely let down. She genuinely thought all was fine and now has nothing. Just a warning or at least some notice would have been nice.

Thanks for your advice, it's really appreciated.

I'd be rather wary of the CAB crude guidelines re employer or employee status. In the tribunal case I dealt with the usual tests of employment status ,such as HMRC and CAB tests, indicated that the claimants (there were 50 in total) appeared to most likely be self employed. The tests were wrong. Employment status is a complex area of employment law. I do not want to bog you down with legal mumbo jumbo, but will ask some questions tomorrow, hopefully first thing, and then based on replies I can hopefully offer some clearer insight, at least re legal options.

In the interim one important question. What does your partner want ? Her job back ? A reference ? Compensation? Or is too early to know what she wants whilst the dismissal, and nature thereof, is still so raw !?