Please read the job advert carefully !

mattcanary

Of course, you should send a cover letter, as well as a CV. Even if the advert doesn't specifically ask for it.

A cover letter should state why you want the job, and why and how you would be able to do it. That applies as much to a general labouring job as it does to a managerial role. It should show that your application is serious, and that you would be disappointed if you didn't get the job. If I was a recruiter, that is what I would want to see.

It is a pretty damning indictment of the system really when so many people think they are unnecessary. Finding a job should not be a numbers game: ie just sending off as many bog standard CVS by email as you can and then saying you have applied for such and such number of jobs. But that is what the DWP have created.

It is a good idea for employers to request hard copies of letters and CVs. It means they don't have to wade through applications made just to satisfy quotas. Instead, they are far more likely to receive applications from people that actually want the job - it costs to send something in the post, and considerably more than it did a few years ago too.


PS: I have sometimes sent bog standard CVs and cover letters. They are done purely to boost up the number of jobs I have applied for. I have no expectation of being seriously considered for the job. As stated above, that is what the DWP have created by their numbers game.
Sometimes old-fashioned ways are the best. Despite what the majority of people think (well, actually even more so because of that in this case).

DKLS

mattcanary wrote: »

Of course, you should send a cover letter, as well as a CV. Even if the advert doesn't specifically ask for it.

A cover letter should state why you want the job, and why and how you would be able to do it. That applies as much to a general labouring job as it does to a managerial role.

It is a pretty damning indictment of the system really when so many people think they are unnecessary. Finding a job should not be a numbers game: ie just sending off as many bog--standard CVS by email as you can and thn saying you have applied for such and such number of jobs. But that is what the DWP have created.

I think covers letters are a waste of time from both a job hunting and recruitment point of view, the cover letters I have seen are contrived twaddle.

But good for you if cover letters work for you, after many years of jumping through HR hoops I now pick and choose the jobs I apply for.

If I see any request for hard copies, cover letters, application firms etc I simply don't apply as based on experience its usually indicates a crappy company to work for.

Also why on earth are people reading hundreds of cvs? Get some HR software on the job, I can get the system to filter applucants, invite successful for interview, send sorry emails to the rest in about 12 mouse clicks, these days I only read cvs on the day of interview.

mattcanary

DKLS wrote: »

I think covers letters are a waste of time from both a job hunting and recruitment point of view, the cover letters I have seen are contrived twaddle.

But good for you if cover letters work for you, after many years of jumping through HR hoops I now pick and choose the jobs I apply for.

If I see any request for hard copies, cover letters, application firms etc I simply don't apply as based on experience its usually indicates a crappy company to work for.

Also why on earth are people reading hundreds of cvs? Get some HR software on the job, I can get the system to filter applicants, invite successful for interview, send sorry emails to the rest in about 12 mouse clicks, these days I only read cvs on the day of interview.

I am sorry, but you are a damning indictment of the system.
Why the hell do you want to use some robotic computer to decide who wants to work for your company - this is what you are doing by using software to try and pick out "keywords".

And then companies moan about the quality of their staff.....

Cover letters should not be "contrived twaddle", as you put it. They should use plain English, stating why you want to do the job, and picking out key points from your CV that shows how you can do it.

Far better surely to get far fewer applications, but from people who genuinely want the job - and then read through the applications yourself? Which is the likely result if you ask applicants to send the CV and cover letter in the post.
Common sense, I would have thought.

I'd say the companies that request postal applications are generally smaller companies anyway. They have less HR hoops to pass through than larger companies, by their very nature. People just seem to mistakenly believe that the more applications they receive, the more likely they are to appoint the right person. Just makes it more difficult - because they are overwhelmed, so can't treat each application on its proper merits.


I am not saying this is the only way to appoint staff.
For unskilled or manual jobs, you could just as easily ask applicants to come into your workplace, speak to them and then based upon what you think of them, perhaps then test them for an hour or so at doing the work (if that is possible).
That is far more appropriate than using a computer to hunt for "keywords".

nonnatus

Mattcanary - I echo your entire post!! It's exactly how I feel about applying for jobs.
I've been both an employee and an employer. A Covering letter has been invaluable in the past when, for whatever reason, I'm applying for a job that doesn't match up with my previous jobs, or my qualifications, or it explains a gap in employment.
It's a way of saying "HI, I KNOW it doesn't seem like I'm the obvious choice for this position because of xxxxx BUT yyyyyy. Now that I've explained, briefly, could you please spare some time to interview me and I'll elaborate further..."


It's like a foot in the door. It has stopped a CV going straight in the bin on more than one occasion.


I think in this age, when jobs are increasingly hard to find, to not even APPLY because you don't like what the Employer is asking for, or don't see the use of their request, is extremely arrogant and slightly aggressive.
But as an employer, I wouldn't want a candidate like that sat in front of me either! So maybe it's the laws of natural selection working properly for once!!
The trouble today, is that there is a whole generation of people with a massive sense of "Entitlement"


Teachers are spoken to as equals and called by their first names. When there is no respect for hierarchy at school, employers stand no chance!

mattcanary

Tabatha_Kitten wrote: »

Just a tip I feel I must share with those of you looking for work from an employers point of view.
I posted a job advert online requesting CV's to be sent along with a covering letter.
In less than 6 hours I have had 32 responses but only 4 have included any kind of covering letter as requested.
A covering letter is a really good way of getting some background information on the candidate and why they could be suitable for the job.
From the point of view of someone who will be going through huge numbers of applications quite simply my first impression is 28 people have failed to follow a simple command and are never ever going to be considered for the post.
It might sound like stating the obvious to some but it also might help someone.

Thanks for that. I think that is useful advice.
Have to say I am pretty shocked that only 4 out of 32 people sent you a cover letter, when you specifically asked for one.

As others have said though, it is probably mostly down to the sanctions regime at the DWP, rather than people being unable to follow instructions.

mattcanary

Recruiters like DKLS would in all likelihood, also go a long way to explain why there is such a big youth unemployment problem in this country.

How would youngsters entering the jobs market, be expected to know these "keywords" (I'd call them "buzzwords" actually)? It's introducing a new form of "jobs for the boys" - only for people that have worked in the specific industry for some period of time.

It's all a very lazy, dim way of recruiting really.

Nothing honourable about applying for 200 jobs or something stupid like that each week, if all people do is send off spec CVs to as many companies as they can.

Nothing dishonourable about applying for only a few jobs a week, if the applicant is taking time in considering if and why they want this job, and then demonstrating that to the recruiter.
If you apply for more than this and are still doing this, then great.

That is better than applying for 200 or so jobs and just blitzing recruiters with what is little more than a piece of junk.

THe DWP, in their "wisdom", would probably disagree with me.

DKLS

mattcanary wrote: »

I am sorry, but you are a damning indictment of the system.
Why the hell do you want to use some robotic computer to decide who wants to work for your company - this is what you are doing by using software to try and pick out "keywords".

And then companies moan about the quality of their staff.....

Cover letters should not be "contrived twaddle", as you put it. They should use plain English, stating why you want to do the job, and picking out key points from your CV that shows how you can do it.

Far better surely to get far fewer applications, but from people who genuinely want the job - and then read through the applications yourself? Which is the likely result if you ask applicants to send the CV and cover letter in the post.
Common sense, I would have thought.

I'd say the companies that request postal applications are generally smaller companies anyway. They have less HR hoops to pass through than larger companies, by their very nature. People just seem to mistakenly believe that the more applications they receive, the more likely they are to appoint the right person. Just makes it more difficult - because they are overwhelmed, so can't treat each application on its proper merits.


I am not saying this is the only way to appoint staff.
For unskilled or manual jobs, you could just as easily ask applicants to come into your workplace, speak to them and then based upon what you think of them, perhaps then test them for an hour or so at doing the work (if that is possible).
That is far more appropriate than using a computer to hunt for "keywords".

Using Hr software is efficient, and a good use of my time and in my experience produces much better hires than using the application form route which provides the fairest result but rarely the best candidate.

mattcanary

DKLS wrote: »

Using Hr software is efficient, and a good use of my time and in my experience produces much better hires than using the application form route which provides the fairest result but rarely the best candidate.

What type of job do you recruit for?

mattcanary

DKLS wrote: »

Using Hr software is efficient, and a good use of my time and in my experience produces much better hires than using the application form route which provides the fairest result but rarely the best candidate.

The fairest result and the best candidate are the same thing, surely??!!!"!
Or am I misisng something here?

DKLS

mattcanary wrote: »

The fairest result and the best candidate are the same thing, surely??!!!"!
Or am I misisng something here?

Not the same thing at all, one ensures that a fair process is involved at every the other produces the best candidate.

I have recruited from 16k project admin jobs to snr jobs up to 120k