CC fraud by family

vixster123

Hi all, brand new poster here desperately seeking advice, I apologise in advance for the length of this post.


This is a long on going saga so I will keep it too the minimum details:


My brother has been stealing from my parents credit cards and has racked up almost £20,000 in debt!


This first came to light in July when my Mum received statements from 3 of her and my dads CC detailing cash withdrawals £250 at time to the tune of around £5000. She confronted my brother who confessed that he had a major cocaine addiction and had got into a lot of debt with some threatening people. He was of course very sorry/embarrassed/scared and my mum hid this from my dad.


Brother promised that this would never happen again, that he would change his life


August and Sept brought more of the same and we had to tell my dad, we sat down and added it all up - around £15,000. Dad was understandably furious and hurt but we all agreed that we could sort this as a family. Brother finally managed to get a job which he has kept, wages go into mums bank and he gets 'pocket money'. we really believed things had changed.


During this time we discussed bankruptcy , consolidation etc but as a matter of pride I think, my parents decided that they would pay what they could afford (the minimums on each...just) and not seek help or advice.


As im sure you can imagine, this has been very trying and emotional for us all but we were slowly coming to terms with the lies and dishonesty and building are family back up.


In Dec, my brother came to my husband and I, very scared and in very poor mental health and informed us that he still owed £2500 of old drug debt that he had somehow kept from us as we were so proud of how he was doing in changing his life.


We paid this xmas eve with a loan and kept this from my parents to save them being hurt any more.


Everything was going fine, until yesterday when my parents received a statement detailing £6000 of cash and transactions. They didn't even know the pin number to this card or even where it was in the house! (they are very disorganised)


They called me in tears and I went over. I called the CC company fraud debt and explained the whole story, they were at first very unhelpful as it was a family issue. When I stated that this was still unauthorised in every sense, family or not they agreed to suspend the card, charges and fees and would send a dispute form out.


We also contacted the Police. We told them everything and my brother has been contacted for interview. At first we were all concerned that he would hurt himself (mental health is poor) but we now know he is safe. He came to my house to explain himself and is just broken. He cant believe he started using drugs again, hurt and lied to us again.


My family is in pieces, my parents never want contact with my brother again they say (understandably) and I just don't know what to do.


Yes my brother has hurt us immensely but he's still my brother. And I want to get him help.


The police have asked us to details every transaction as part of the case.


Even though my parents have acknowledged and been paying off the debts from summer, can we still highlight these as fraud and get them refunded?


Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

CKhalvashi

This sounds dreadful!

I will PM you in a moment.

CK

vixster123

Thanks,


I should also point out that my parents have always had an excellent credit rating and have had the accounts for 10 plus years. They never once received a phonecall highlighting unusual spending activity!

CKhalvashi

vixster123 wrote: »

Thanks,


I should also point out that my parents have always had an excellent credit rating and have had the accounts for 10 plus years. They never once received a phonecall highlighting unusual spending activity!

This will be largely down to bank systems. With me, they flag up a lot of legitimate spending, so it's double edged sword.

You'll need all their statements to assist police.

CK

jonesMUFCforever

This is just my opinion but the only fraud likely to be refunded will be the last one which has been reported to the police.
The only way to get the rest back is from the son which is no chance is it.
With hindsight they should have gone to the police at the beginning - now IMO they have accepted the first lots by repaying it.

vixster123

Thanks for the reply...yeah we thought as much - by paying the minims they were acknowledging the transactions.


I agree completely, but it takes a lot to go to the police. Glad we have now though, they have been brilliant so far and have stressed that this may be an opening to getting him the help he needs

CKhalvashi

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

This is just my opinion but the only fraud likely to be refunded will be the last one which has been reported to the police.
The only way to get the rest back is from the son which is no chance is it.
With hindsight they should have gone to the police at the beginning - now IMO they have accepted the first lots by repaying it.

If there is a conviction based on the lot (which will probably be getting into multiple conviction territory), then I'd say there may be some chance of getting something back.

I don't know of any case law on this (someone will probably find it, and I will look now for the FOS file I've seen on this), so there may be little hope.

It's going to be largely dependent on the goodwill of the bank, however if your brother is willing to repay what he borrowed, plus interest at a reasonable rate, then he may avoid a prison sentence.

All that can be done really is to wait and see what happens.

CK

CKhalvashi

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/91/91-family-disputes.htm#cs4

91/4 is the closest resemblance I can find here.

Again, if there are criminal convictions, this could be subject to change.

CK

vixster123

Thanks for your help, will have a read now

agrinnall

You have to understand the way that the bank will look at this - cash withdrawals require both the card and the PIN, your brother should never have had the PIN in the first place, but once it was known this was happening the PIN should have been changed and kept secret. All of this is the responsibility of the cardholder, and the bank will be within their rights not to refund anything. Now, they may make a goodwill gesture and write some of it off, but I don't think you can rely on it.

chattychappy

CKhalvashi wrote: »

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/91/91-family-disputes.htm#cs4

91/4 is the closest resemblance I can find here.

Again, if there are criminal convictions, this could be subject to change.

CK

Very similar story. But in that case, a current account was involved. The FOS found that gross negligence meant that the debit card holder was liable (after they discovered the drug problem).

In this case we have a CC. On similar facts there was also (perhaps) gross negligence, but with credit tokens the liability is limited.

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/46/46_plastic_cards.htm

I feel that the OP should be able to recover the whole lot, bar £50 perhaps.. though it will be a struggle. Unless I've missed something?