First time renovating an unmodernised property

Vetyver

Cross-posted from the Buying/Selling/Renting Property section of the forum: I'm renovating an unmodernised high-rise flat and making it open-plan. As an FTB, I'm trying to figure out exactly what I need to do upon completion - and in what order - before I can move in. Does this list cover everything? Have I got anything in the wrong order (e.g. painting before floor sanding?), or missed anything obvious?

As I can't be on-site 24/7 (can only take 20 working days, in 2-week blocks at a time, and thereafter it's just weekends) I reckon this might take around 3-4 months to finish. What can be done at weekends, and what should I block time off for?

Between exchange and completion

• Get 3-4 quotes from builders
• Get permission from freeholder (my lease requires permission for external changes only, so just for the double-glazing)
• Get Building Control/Regulations permission for change in internal layout (no structural changes)

On completion

• Take meter readings (gas, electricity)*, call utilities companies
• Request water meter*
• Notify local council; request 14 day tax exemption for inoccupancy due to renovations

Reno plan-of-action
Throughout

• Take up carpet and clean the place
• Clean walls with sugar soap, [STRIKE]assess if replastering needed[/STRIKE] apply high-grade lining paper and paint
• Change windows - double glazing (+FENSA cert)
• Electrical rewiring (+NICEIC/NAPIT cert)
• Install downlighting, if possible
• Remove water tank (sell as scrap metal)
• Install combi-boiler and radiators in every room
• Paint walls and ceilings
• Remove vinyl floor tiles
• Hire sanding machines, restore wood floor

Bathroom

• Remove existing bathroom suite
• Install extractor fan and any electrics (shaving socket etc.)
• Tile walls and floor
• Install bathroom suite

Kitchen

• Clear anything existing
• Move pipes/plumbing to through-lounge
• Install extractor fan
• Install new kitchen cabinets and appliances (buying IKEA; DIY assemble before builder installing to cut costs)

Also, any Moneysaving Tips on all the above? :money: e.g., I was told that I shouldn't need to replaster walls, as filling any holes and using a high-grade lining paper + good paint will cover a multitude of sins. I plan to do as much as I can myself, e.g. tiling, painting, floor sanding & refinishing.

It's a scary project for me as it's all a big unknown, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Doozergirl

You don't need any kind of building control approval for non-structural work. The electrician, gas engineer and window people can certify their own work - just make sure you're using the right people.

Fwiw, it *might* be a problem getting permission from the freeholder to do the windows, they usually like to keep things uniform. If not, then great for you.

Is there gas in the apartment? There often isn't!

Strip everything out first, that will be your first weekend. Anything that is not staying, goes. Just leave yourself tap and toilet. Do not even consider washing anything except the loo, the trades will make an almighty mess.

You employ your electrician and plumber to come in and first fix before anything else, ask the electrician to give you at least one working socket. Once you've first fixed then I would go for windows but all three of these are interchangeable. All of this will cause plaster damage. At this point you'll know what condition the plaster was truly in and whether extensive repair is needed. Address filling/papering or plastering. Sugar soap woodwork before papering otherwise, sugarsoap woodwork after plastering and floor sanding.

From this point there are things that can run concurrently or can be moved about a bit.

Sand floors. You need to tell these guys if the floors are exposed as they need to work carefully and not butcher them.

Paint the bathroom ceiling before anything else in that room, in case of splashes over tiles etc. you can always touch up.

Then do the kitchen walls, then fit the kitchen. We try to decorate the kitchen walls before the kitchen goes in, then touch up afterwards.

I'll come back, hang on! ...

Doozergirl

Fit bath as part of first fix so you can tile the room around it.

You can choose whether to second fix before or after you decorate. Again, we find it easier to do before so to avoid getting paint on radiators and light switches etc, but touching up is needed.

Paint ceilings first. If you seal the flooring before you paint the walls, then cover the floor to decorate the walls. Any splashes will come up - otherwise you can't sand until you've decorated the walls and you're going to make dust in a semi- finished house.

Moving pipework and laying cables to where they need to be all come under first fix. Installing the radiators, extractors, appliances switches - anything you actually see as the finished product - come under second fix.

phill99

Good advice from Doozergirl (as always).

I would add a couple of things.

Not plastering maybe false economy. If you are having such an extensive amount if work done, particularly the Rewire, some parts may need reskimming as a result. If that's the case, it may be more cost effective to get the whole room done. For instance the cost differential between say getting 2 walls plastered and four, isn't double the cost, but more in the order of 30%. Additionally a plastered wall is much nicer than a lined one. Lined walls will always look lined unless done by a good quality paper hanger.

I do this for a living and always tell people this: what ever you think it will cost, add 50% and always double the length of time you think it will take.

stebiz

Health and Safety really should be top of that list.

In older properties they can have all kinds of nasties ie lead in paint, asbestos in floor tiles/ artex.

You should satisfy that both yourself and others will be safe. Wear adequate protection and then enjoy the restoration.

wallbash

My qualification

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1186031

do this for a living and always tell people this: what ever you think it will cost, add 50% and always double the length of time you think it will take.

Best bit of advice , heed it.

Health and Safety really should be top of that list.

Sorry , but not top of my list, if you spent too much time thinking what could go wrong you will never get started. Common sense is all that is required.

but

then enjoy the restoration..

is essential , if you are doing just to save money, the days ( and weeks) will drag.

You are hoping for a project of 12/16 weeks, I would hope you could do it for a lot less time, time is money.

Yes I was putting in three times the amount of effort, but I was attacking the whole house plus major building work but had a time scale of 8 months. And no , I was not a builder.

trailingspouse

Are you sure the floorboards are good enough to sand? When we pulled up the carpets with the intention of doing this, we realised they simply weren't good enough (we've gone for solid wood flooring in some rooms and carpet in others).

Would agree that everything always takes longer than you think it will. Ditto having the walls re-plastered is quicker, easier and possibly cheaper than faffing on with Polyfilla and lining paper.

Have a contingency fund for unexpected stuff. My electrician was well impressed when he discovered that the garage ceiling was asbestos, and within 2 hours I had sourced some specialised removers, had it tested, and agreed removal within 48 hours. It cost me £1200 - money which was readily available because I had a contingency fund. I didn't know what it would be used for, but I knew it would be used for something!!

Finally, when you're choosing trades people, don't go on price alone. Go for people who you feel you can 'do business' with. Especially if you're not going to be there all the time, you need to be able to trust them, and for them to be on the same wavelength.

And finally, enjoy it - I've been living in a building site for nearly a year, and I still love it.

dee4life2005

It seems you doing a fair amount of work!

Might be a good time to check the property has lead water pipes. If so might be the perfect opportunity to think about replacing these with plastic piping ?

Vetyver

Wow, thank you for all the helpful posts so far!

Firstly, Doozergirl - wow, thank you so much for your long reply and awesome nuggets of advice!

Doozergirl wrote: »

You don't need any kind of building control approval for non-structural work. The electrician, gas engineer and window people can certify their own work - just make sure you're using the right people.

Fwiw, it *might* be a problem getting permission from the freeholder to do the windows, they usually like to keep things uniform. If not, then great for you.

Is there gas in the apartment? There often isn't!

Oh! I rang the local council building control department, and they said that I would need to apply. I think it’s because of the moving the kitchen - the Planning Portal website says: “If a bathroom or kitchen is to be provided in a room where there wasn't one before, building regulations approval is likely to be required to ensure that the room will have adequate ventilation and drainage, and meet requirements in respect of structural stability, electrical and fire safety.” It’s unfortunate to have to add another cost to the tune of around £280 though

As for the freeholder and the windows, I plan to get the request in to them *as soon* as I exchange, seeing as it took them an AGE to even issue the leasehold pack. I hope to get permission though, because looking at Rightmove ads for other flats in the block, they all seem to have upgraded to white PVCu windows already!

The gas - the flat is currently serviced with warm-air heating, but again, all the other sold/rented flats appear to have gas radiators and hobs. And the agent pointed out something that looked like a gas point in the wall. So hopefully this will be OK.

Doozergirl wrote: »

Strip everything out first, that will be your first weekend. Anything that is not staying, goes. Just leave yourself tap and toilet.

Question about this, if I may - my mum says she's always had the builder take away any 'stuff' when replacing it. But I guess it would be cheaper to do this myself. Question is - as I cannot hire a skip (nowhere for it to go in a high-rise flat!), do I need to hire a minivan and take everything to the local dump? Or would it be better to call in a disposal team for bulky items? Local Council charges £20 to collect 1-8 bulky items...good deal or no?

Doozergirl wrote: »

Fit bath as part of first fix so you can tile the room around it.

You can choose whether to second fix before or after you decorate.

So sorry if I’m being dense, but what is ‘first fix’ and ‘second fix’ - do you mean I should do everything in two instalments?

phill99 wrote: »

Not plastering maybe false economy.

Good point, thanks Phill. TBH I was rather hoping that I wouldn't need to replaster at all - will need to inspect the walls again after rewiring of course, but on first impression they're currently just severely stained and smelly. I hadn't even considered the lining-paper/paint approach until a DIY-inclined family friend said that was what he did!

Vetyver

wallbash wrote: »

My qualification

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1186031

Wow wallbash, that's a humdinger of a thread! Thank you for the link, I'm sorry I never saw it before - I'm going to try making my way through all 101 pages now

You're right, I am really, really looking forward to getting stuck into this 'project'. D&T was my favourite subject at school and I can't wait to start getting handy - but I'm also scared witless as it's such a massive undertaking, and on the biggest purchase of my life!

Vetyver

trailingspouse wrote: »

Are you sure the floorboards are good enough to sand? When we pulled up the carpets with the intention of doing this, we realised they simply weren't good enough (we've gone for solid wood flooring in some rooms and carpet in others).

Thank you for your advice! Yes, I've considered the flooring issue. I understand that the flooring would've once been finger-parquet - this is going on all the ads I've seen for flats in the same block, who are advertised as having the 'original parquet'. But when I lifted up the flimsy stained carpet, all I saw were horrible blue vinyl floor tiles.

I've been researching ways of removing them, and it looks like a combination of heat (via either heat gun or hairdryer) and good ol' elbow-grease + spade, or putty knife, should prise them off. But my contingency is to buy some laminate flooring that clicks together, and some nice rugs.

trailingspouse wrote: »

Finally, when you're choosing trades people, don't go on price alone. Go for people who you feel you can 'do business' with. Especially if you're not going to be there all the time, you need to be able to trust them, and for them to be on the same wavelength.

Absolutely! Right now I'm canvassing my friends and family for recommendations. It's tough; it seems that many of my family have been bitten by rogues. I'm anxious to keep costs down but I don't want to be fleeced and I definitely don't want to be disappointed with the workmanship when I'm planning to live there for years!

I'm very lucky that as an FTB, I can live at my parents' until the flat is ready, so aside from paying taxes/bills/mortgage on an empty property, I have no pressure to finish to a set schedule

dee4life2005 wrote: »

It seems you doing a fair amount of work!

Might be a good time to check the property has lead water pipes. If so might be the perfect opportunity to think about replacing these with plastic piping ?

Ahhhh... I didn't even know that was an issue! The flat is in a high-rise block, though - will the pipes not be centralised?