How Socialism Works (not for the faint hearted)

Bantex_2

Generali wrote: »

Hayek was a philosopher not an historian.

She did a wonderful dance scene in From Dusk To Dawn.

Running_Horse

Voyager2002 wrote: »

And in Cuba, I was struck by the discontent of many of the people I met, and their belief that things were better elsewhere -- in reality the levels of public health and well-being there put Britain to shame and are outstanding for what is still a poor country: had it not been for the revolution, conditions there would doubtless be comparable with those in the Dominican Republic, which are miserable for most people.

Not many people die trying to cross the sea from Florida to Cuba. Not many people were shot trying to go east through the iron curtain. How dare the proletariat be ungrateful for what socialism has done for them?

adouglasmhor

communism is not a reaction against the failure of the nineteenth century to organize optimal economic output. It is a reaction against its comparative success. It is a protest against the emptiness of economic welfare, an appeal to the ascetic in us all... The idealistic youth play with communism because it is the only spiritual appeal which feels to them contemporary.

John maynard keynes, 1934

♥♦♣♠☻☺♂♀♪♫

MS1950

Generali wrote: »

Hayek was a philosopher not an historian.

And that's the sum total of your response is it?

Perhaps I should have said 'no sensible or responsible student of history (in it's broadest sense) ‘predicts in all cases’ - or are you suggesting that because he was a philosopher and not an historian his predictions need not be as tentative and cautious as an historian's.

Prothet_of_Doom

I like to think of Socialism as a bit like christianity, without the religion.

Bantex_2

Prothet_of_Doom wrote: »

I like to think of Socialism as a bit like christianity, without the religion.

Like the C of E?

Voyager2002

Running_Horse wrote: »

Not many people die trying to cross the sea from Florida to Cuba. Not many people were shot trying to go east through the iron curtain. How dare the proletariat be ungrateful for what socialism has done for them?

And your point is?

Just for the record, all Cubans are now allowed to travel abroad if they can afford a passport and air ticket: the problem is getting a visa! (The USA does not normally give them visas, although if they somehow manage to get there they have a right to a 'green card': can anyone explain the logic in this?)

Yes: many citizens of non-First World countries believe that they would be better off abroad, and make enormous sacrifices to move to high-income countries. My observation is that in many cases they would actually be better off remaining at home: Cuba is far from being the only country of which this is true. (For example, Chinese illegal immigrants in Britain and elsewhere in Europe.)

Generali

Voyager2002 wrote: »

And your point is?

Just for the record, all Cubans are now allowed to travel abroad if they can afford a passport and air ticket: the problem is getting a visa! (The USA does not normally give them visas, although if they somehow manage to get there they have a right to a 'green card': can anyone explain the logic in this?)

Yes: many citizens of non-First World countries believe that they would be better off abroad, and make enormous sacrifices to move to high-income countries. My observation is that in many cases they would actually be better off remaining at home: Cuba is far from being the only country of which this is true. (For example, Chinese illegal immigrants in Britain and elsewhere in Europe.)

Why do you think West Germans got rich whereas on the 'Democratic' side of the wall it was, in effect, a capital crime to attempt to leave? Perhaps that was just another one of those little anomalous bits of communism, an exception to the rule. Like forcing mothers to drown babies, starving 10s of millions deliberately, forced abortion and sterilization and the Gulag.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Generali, you should read The Dispossessed. Supposed to be the most realistic literary depiction of how a communist society could function. Really makes you think.

Generali

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

Generali, you should read The Dispossessed. Supposed to be the most realistic literary depiction of how a communist society could function. Really makes you think.

Thanks, I'll give it a go.

Who's the author? We don't really have books in Australia.