How Socialism Works (not for the faint hearted)

Generali

One for the sympathizers to understand who they are siding with.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/16/world/asia/north-korea-un-report/

A North Korean prison camp survivor told of a pregnant woman in a condition of near-starvation who gave birth to a baby -- a new life born against all odds in a grim camp. A security agent heard the baby's cries and beat the mother as a punishment.
She begged him to let her keep the baby, but he kept beating her.
With shaking hands, the mother was forced to pick up her newborn and put the baby face down in water until the cries stopped and a water bubble formed from the newborn's mouth.

The workers' flag is deepest red,
That shroudeth all our victims dead,
While traitors scoff and cowards sneer,
We'll murder babies without a care

Bantex_2

Surely N Korea just uses the term socialism.
Sweden is closer to most peoples definition.

chewmylegoff

Isn't North Korea a despotic police state "ruled" by a puppet of its enormous army?

Voyager2002

Generali wrote: »

One for the sympathizers to understand who they are siding with.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/16/world/asia/north-korea-un-report/



The workers' flag is deepest red,
That shroudeth all our victims dead,
While traitors scoff and cowards sneer,
We'll murder babies without a care

You might equally describe the horrors of Chile under Pinochet (death squads; concentration camps; mass executions) and present that as an exemplar of a free market society.

In fact, such a presentation would be closer to the truth: Thatcher's economic policies were based on a model first put into practice in Chile, while her close ties with Pinochet are surely to the enduring shame of the UK.

Bantex_2

Think Generali is losing the plot a bit on this one.

Voyager2002

mayonnaise wrote: »

Jeez OP....hyperbole or what?

Sadly, the description of the reality of life in North Korea is apparently accurate.

I very much doubt whether there is anyone in the UK who actually sympathises with this monstrous government. People on the left, including those of us who describe ourselves as socialists, have a far better record of taking action to help the victims of this kind of regime than people on the right -- the standard right-wing response is to complain about left-wing "bleeding hears" and to refuse to allow this kind of concern to get in the way of sporting or business links.

CLAPTON

a thread best not started and now best ended

BillJones

Voyager2002 wrote: »

Sadly, the description of the reality of life in North Korea is apparently accurate.

I very much doubt whether there is anyone in the UK who actually sympathises with this monstrous government.

Try reading the commenst in the Guardian, and you'll see how wrong this view is. The left is always ready to forgive atrocities, crimes, and misdemeanours if they are carried out by the "right sort".

Look at the left's view of Roman Polanski's "demonisation" for apologetics on a lesser crime.

They then demend extra-judicial punishments against those who they don't like, such as bankers, even if they've not broken any laws.

No, your attempt to paint the left as the nicer end of the political divide will not wash. They aren't, and never have been.

Generali

Hayek correctly predicted that in all cases, socialism is the Road to Serfdom.

This demonstrates the point in a very strong way. There is no equivalence in capitalist liberal democracy.

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

a thread best not started and now best ended

Why do you think that?

antrobus

Bantex wrote: »

Surely N Korea just uses the term socialism.
Sweden is closer to most peoples definition.

There is nothing remotely socialist about the Swedish economy. It is quite unashamedly capitalist.

Voyager2002 wrote: »

You might equally describe the horrors of Chile under Pinochet (death squads; concentration camps; mass executions) and present that as an exemplar of a free market society.....

Now that would be an example of hyperbole.

General Pinochet might well have led an unpleasant right-wing authoritarian government that went around shooting its oppnents, but the 'horrors' were comparatively mild, compared to say, Cuba.

Voyager2002 wrote: »

In fact, such a presentation would be closer to the truth: Thatcher's economic policies were based on a model first put into practice in Chile, while her close ties with Pinochet are surely to the enduring shame of the UK.

Her close ties with Pinochet were based on Chilean radar providing the British forces with advance warning of Argentintian air movements. There are probably still people around in the UK who have reason to be grateful for that heads up.

Generali wrote: »

....The workers' flag is deepest red,
That shroudeth all our victims dead,
While traitors scoff and cowards sneer,
We'll murder babies without a care

And there was I thinking that everyone already knew that;

The workers' flag is blackest black.
The red one's just for bureaucrats

(Lesson 1, how to upset a Trotskyist)