Solicitor executor - renounce probate question

growler834

My mum-in-law made her will in 2000 & named me & the solicitor as her executors. In 2010 she received a general mailshot from another solicitor saying they had taken over the practice that had done her will & they now held the original. This was the first time we were made aware of this & at no time were we informed of their charges for carrying out the work of an executor.

Late last year MIL had to go live in a nursing home & we had to sell her home to pay for care fees (we have POA). Unfortunately she is very ill & won't be with us for much longer so we have started to 'anticipate' what we will need to do when the sad time arrives. As her estate now comprises only savings accounts & some shares, her will is relatively straightforward to administer. A lot of her savings have been used to pay the care home bills & we are trying to save what money is left for her beneficiaries so we don't want to start paying hefty solicitors fees for what is now an uncomplicated task.

I am therefore going to ask the 'new' solicitor if they will renounce probate to allow me to execute the will without them. I am aware that they don't have to & can still insist on carrying out the task & I wondered if anyone else has been in the same position & what response they had received from the solicitor?

lavalamp

We had this with my MIL's will. We were lucky - I called and said to them that the estate was very simple and would they consider renouncing. They didn't want to do that, but they did agree to 'power reserved' which means that if something did go wrong, they could step in and sort it out. They agreed to that and we didn't hear anything further from them.

If they know your MIL doesn't have much in her estate, they may not be interested anyway.

Crabapple

It may come down to whether they can make money, so if there is little in the estate that will encourage them. There may well be a fee for them preparing and signing a renunciation, but not as much as dealing with the estate.

I doubt they will discuss this with you until after the death though.

Is your MIL well enough to sign papers? If so get her to sign a new Will (make sure you have two independent witnesses to her signing) as soon as possible.

madbadrob

You need to see the will in general because if it names a sole person that person is who you would need to ask to renounce and if it states a firm that has been disolved you may get away without having to do that. Its probable that the new firm would renounce any rights they have anyway

Rob

CaptainAmerica

All the beneficiaries have to put forward the renunciation request to the executors.

I used to work in the Estates & Trusts department of a large high street bank and if we received a renunciation request from all the R/L's in a will then we never dug our heels in and acted we just renounced and let them get on with it.

It is easier to renounce than to act in an estate where the R/L's are dead against the appointment and can and will cause issues with the administration from start to finish and probably delay the completion by months even years!!

growler834

Hi Crabapple,
Unfortunately MIL is bedridden & in the last stage of her life - she has no mental capacity so can no longer understand or sign anything.

madbadrob & CaptainAmerica - The will says 'I appoint Growler834 and John Smith Solicitor'. John Smith's company (one man company) no longer exists & the new company took over his clients. If John Smith is no longer practicing (or even alive perhaps) do the new company have the right to quibble?
There are 4 beneficiaries (we have a copy of the will) - myself, my husband (MIL's son), and my husband's two children MIL's grandchildren. All are happy with me being the sole executor & would happily tell the solicitor that - the only thing is that my stepson now lives in Australia so it would take a little longer for his letter to reach them if that is what they requested.

Crabapple

If the will names him specifically not his firm then it will come down to whether he has died. The firm holding the will should know. If he has, it's not an issue you will just need to say so when applying for probate.

If he hasn't died then he will still need to renounce.

If it says about the firm, and especially if it says something about 'or the firm which has succeeded to and carried on the practice' then you will probably need to ask the new firm to renounce.

growler834

Crabapple wrote: »

If the will names him specifically not his firm then it will come down to whether he has died. The firm holding the will should know. If he has, it's not an issue you will just need to say so when applying for probate.

If he hasn't died then he will still need to renounce.

If it says about the firm, and especially if it says something about 'or the firm which has succeeded to and carried on the practice' then you will probably need to ask the new firm to renounce.

Crabapple - It names him and not his firm. I have just found an obituary for him online in our local paper - he died in January 2009 but the new solicitors, who obviously took over his clients, didn't contact MIL until October 2010! Due to what you have told me I assume I can go ahead as the only executor & they have no right to take on that role.

Hubby rang the solicitors this morning & is waiting for them to ring back as they can't find the will! We know they had it in 2010 as they wrote to MIL & in response she signed a letter asking for a copy to be sent to her (we couldn't find her copy anywhere in the house). They sent her a copy & also registered the will on the Certainty.co website. Now they are having trouble locating it. This may throw up a whole different problem if they can't find the original will.

Crabapple

growler834 wrote: »

Hubby rang the solicitors this morning & is waiting for them to ring back as they can't find the will! We know they had it in 2010 as they wrote to MIL & in response she signed a letter asking for a copy to be sent to her (we couldn't find her copy anywhere in the house). They sent her a copy & also registered the will on the Certainty.co website. Now they are having trouble locating it. This may throw up a whole different problem if they can't find the original will.

If they can't find it, you can prove a copy. They will need to do you an affidavit of loss (at their expense) as you have proof they held it.

Don't worry about that just yet though, they've probably got thousands of wills and have just misfiled it!

growler834

When I search the Internet again for the original solicitor it gets worse. He not only died in 2009 but in 2004 he was suspended for fraud! So if he were still alive we wouldn't be using him as an executor!! It would be interesting to know how long ago the new solicitors took over his client's work!

growler834

Thanks to all for their advice.

We received a call from the solicitors to say that, as the other executor (solicitor) is now deceased they were only holding the will for MIL and were not expecting to act as executor. We do however have to ask the BDM Registry for a copy of the solicitor's death certificate in order to produce it when we ask for Grant of Probate & for any financial institutions etc that may wish to view it.!