Engine remapping

InsideInsurance

I was wondering if these companies really do deliver what they claim?

Looking at a number of companies they claim that simply by changing some of the software they can simultaneously increase performance (BHP & torque) and reduce fuel consumption. Most of their biggest claims come from some of the higher/ more expensive.

As an example, one company was claiming to be able to add about 15% power and improve fuel economy by about 2mpg to a Porsche Panamera Turbo S. Cost was about 500 quid. It seems odd to me that such big gains can be made on a 130k car from a small backstreet garage when Posche's own engineers cant/ dont do the same.

What am I missing?

cootuk

Standard ecu maps have to cater for a wide range of variables such as outside temperatures and fuel quality. There's also limits to reduce engine stress. Remapping tweaks these parameters..a poor remap can kill an engine, good ones can improve things from the standard compromise.
Some remaps might also require better brakes or stronger engine internals if you go ott.

Iceweasel

InsideInsurance wrote: »

I was wondering if these companies really do deliver what they claim?

Looking at a number of companies they claim that simply by changing some of the software they can simultaneously increase performance (BHP & torque) and reduce fuel consumption. Most of their biggest claims come from some of the higher/ more expensive.

As an example, one company was claiming to be able to add about 15% power and improve fuel economy by about 2mpg to a Porsche Panamera Turbo S. Cost was about 500 quid. It seems odd to me that such big gains can be made on a 130k car from a small backstreet garage when Posche's own engineers cant/ dont do the same.

What am I missing?

Who said Porsche couldn't do the same? They could if they wanted too, but the engine would possible be less reliable if they did.

Look at BMW - they have the same 2litre 4 cylinder engine in several cars each one quoting a different BHP - all done by electrickery with the ECU.

I fitted a tuning box (which is essentially a re-map in a box) to a M47 BMW in a LandRover Freelander to give the engine the same power as in the BMW 320d car.

But these remaps and tuning boxes put more strain on the engine and gearbox/transmission.

Not to mention they usually completely invalidate any warranty that you might have - even on a totally unrelated part.

A decision to have a re-map is not to be done lightly.

Ebe_Scrooge

Would you also have to inform your insurance company as it's a "modification" ? Presumably if power is increased compared to the standard setting, then your premiums will go up ?

Iceweasel

Ebe_Scrooge wrote: »

Would you also have to inform your insurance company as it's a "modification" ? Presumably if power is increased compared to the standard setting, then your premiums will go up ?

Yes - I forgot to mention that - of course lots of folks don't say a word and if found out after an accident/claim say that a 'previous owner must have done it.'

But insurance companies are not stupid - same as teachers who get much the same thing from a kid who says "It wasn't me - a big boy did it and ran away." LOL

InsideInsurance

Iceweasel wrote: »

Who said Porsche couldn't do the same? They could if they wanted too, but the engine would possible be less reliable if they did.

Look at BMW - they have the same 2litre 4 cylinder engine in several cars each one quoting a different BHP - all done by electrickery with the ECU.

I'm not saying they couldnt but I'd have imagined that if they are selling a car as a sports car and making a relatively big thing of its BHP, 0-62 etc that they wouldnt be intentionally down tunning the engine in their top of that model vehicle if there is any possibility of the vehicle taking it (especially not by 15%)

I can see that BMW have a 2l 4c engine in several models with different outputs but have no idea if that is the identical engine, same turbos, gearing etc or if some or all of the parts are different. I dont doubt there is some parts sharing but assumed that flagship vehicles dont have the identical engine to the entry model and its just a limiter causing the difference in performance.

Iceweasel

In the case of the BMW it is exactly the same engine - but yes the gearing can be different for the higher bhp models.

The lower bhp models will appeal to folks who are looking for better mpg figures or drivers whose insurance would be out of their price range on the top bhp ratings.

As for Porsche - there will always be more power available from an engine at the expense of reliability - so they make a decision as to what is reasonable.

There are always owners who want more power, and are prepared to risk the consequences.

A bit like riding a horse - if you whack it harder it will run faster - but it wont last so long - it's likely need more vet care - sorry bad metaphor, but I hope you get my drift.

No way would I re-map a car nowadays - I'd buy the next powerful model up, if I really needed the extra horses. (See - that's where the horse idea/example came from )

InsideInsurance

Iceweasel wrote: »

No way would I re-map a car nowadays - I'd buy the next powerful model up, if I really needed the extra horses. (See - that's where the horse idea/example came from )

But in the porsche case, there is no more powerful 4 door model made by them.

I accept the reliability comment but 15% increase in power and 10% increase in fuel consumption is significant and Im surprised they cant make a lower improvement and retain appropriate reliability (Esp on the fuel consumption front).

Retrogamer

A lot of companies are conservative when they set up the ECU on the vehicle for it's performance and mpg.

They know a lot of owners miss or are late with service intervals so if the power is toned down a bit from it's maximum safe potential this gives more leeway with missing service schedules or being late with them.

I've got an Ibiza FR TDi just now and will be going for a live remap just after i upgrade the clutch, clean out the intake manifold and remove the EGR valve.

This, with the big bore exhaust modifications should take power from 130bhp/210ftlbs to approx 170bhp / 290ftlbs

It'll be done on a rolling road so it's classed as a "live map" rather than generic so it can be tweaked specifically to my engine.

To counter the extra heat from the Turbo the exhaust has a bigger bore and the cat removed (for just now) to allow the hot gasses to escape quicker.
Likewise, i'm going to do oil services every 5k instead of the manufactures 10k recommendation.
Finally i'll be using a higher grade oil as well.

Iceweasel

InsideInsurance wrote: »

But in the porsche case, there is no more powerful 4 door model made by them.

I accept the reliability comment but 15% increase in power and 10% increase in fuel consumption is significant and Im surprised they cant make a lower improvement and retain appropriate reliability (Esp on the fuel consumption front).

Point taken about Porsche next model up.

But I think that you would find that it's extra power or extra mpg.

I can't see anyone getting both at the same time.

InsideInsurance

Retrogamer wrote: »

I've got an Ibiza FR TDi just now and will be going for a live remap just after i upgrade the clutch, clean out the intake manifold and remove the EGR valve.

This, with the big bore exhaust modifications should take power from 130bhp/210ftlbs to approx 170bhp / 290ftlbs

It'll be done on a rolling road so it's classed as a "live map" rather than generic so it can be tweaked specifically to my engine.

To counter the extra heat from the Turbo the exhaust has a bigger bore and the cat removed (for just now) to allow the hot gasses to escape quicker.

So looking at another vehicle, a relatively new 3.5l non-turbo 302bhp automatic a @live@ company has said they believe they can reasonably get an additional 35bhp and 30nm of torque with no impact on fuel.

What other changes would you do to the car to assist with dealing with it? The same model of car also has a 4.7l/430bhp engine variety before you get into the "sports" variants so dont know how many components will be shared with its larger engined brother to say that they're already rated for the higher outputs